Certain mistakes

[Ser Spidey]

Greycox, a great point.

Although minor and irrelevant, it is a mistake.

Mormont, it seems to me that you had as much trouble understanding me as vice versa.

But the concept of Seasons and seasons is great. So, let's clarify it.

IMO if the winters come after the autumns and before the springs, just like the Winters, then they are way too important not to be announced by the Citadel.

The solution which I would be willing to accept are 'naughty winters' coming in the middle of a summer or an autumn, but nevertheless shorter than 6, and possibly even 3 months.

But this would also mean that Westeros has a year even more weird than we've suspected.

And I still can't shake off that feeling that Tyrion would speak in Citadel's years. After all, he IS an intelligent and educated man.

[Jon Targaryen]

Re: Sarella

I think its vague enough that we can guess it is a bow case she is slinging over her shoulder.

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

It likly a reconn (a good one) and can ealy be the Caractors mistake but the old bear tells Jon that Barlor was kill in a Torney mishap when he died fighting in a trial by Combat

[Jon Targaryen]

It likly a reconn (a good one) and can ealy be the Caractors mistake but the old bear tells Jon that Barlor was kill in a Torney mishap when he died fighting in a trial by Combat

That is true. It is chronicled in the Hedge Knight.

ETA: Unless you mean it was a trial by battle instead of a tourney. But it did take place at a tourney.

[mormont]

IMO if the winters come after the autumns and before the springs, just like the Winters, then they are way too important not to be announced by the Citadel.

I can't see why, frankly.

The solution which I would be willing to accept are 'naughty winters' coming in the middle of a summer or an autumn, but nevertheless shorter than 6, and possibly even 3 months.

But this would also mean that Westeros has a year even more weird than we've suspected.

Another possibility, if unlikely.

And I still can't shake off that feeling that Tyrion would speak in Citadel's years. After all, he IS an intelligent and educated man.

He is, but it doesn't follow that he would necessarily take every reference to 'winter' to mean 'winter as the Citadel recognises it'.

Another explanation is possible: I have been working on the assumption that the length of the seasons varies somewhat randomly, rather than there being any sort of pattern. But it could be that the Long Summer was preceded by a series of unusually short seasons, allowing for Tyrion's early youth to feature a number of winters. So, hypothetically, the average winter in Westeros might be three years long, but this could be made up of a period when there was a regular three-year cycle of seasons for some decades, then a series of short six-month seasons for maybe ten years, then a decade-long summer and winter.

[Ser Spidey]

I can't see why, frankly.

Because the maesters Can't know if it's going to be a winter or a Winter when it begins. When weather becomes worse after an autumn, they ought to call it a winter.

The other explanation is streched, but suitable.

[spork]

I'm in the midst of re-reading AFFC, and I came across an apparent mistake in the Queenmaker chapter.

Arianne and Darkstar are discussing crowning Myrcella:

"Call it what you will. Crowning the Lannister girl is a hollow gesture. She will never sit the Iron Throne. Nor will you get the war you want. The lion is not so easily provoked."

"The lion's dead. Who knows which cub the lioness prefers?"

This implies, to me, that they are discussing the death of Tywin (the lion), and of Cersei, as the regent (the lioness).

Then later, she speaks with Arys Oakheart:

"There are other tidings you should hear. Tywin Lannister is dead."

That was a shock. "Dead?"

"Murdered by the Imp. The queen has assumed the regency."

[Jon Targaryen]

I think the "lion" refers to Joff. That explains the inconsistency.

[telobsidion]

I dislike the idea of Winters and winters. We get no talk of the seasons changing over the course of the books, or particularly, the effects of said seasons. The ecology of this world is likely already adapted to the world's climate, anyway. Aren't we told numerous times that this long summer is indeed uncharacteristically long? And perhaps the shorter seasons in the past were merely the calm before the storm, if you catch my meaning. Three years to cycle through a season is a long time indeed, and the long winter would still be quite punishing.

[Happy Ent]

I'm in the midst of re-reading AFFC, and I came across an apparent mistake in the Queenmaker chapter.

See message #10 of this very thread.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Mormont, I can't help but feel like you're barking up the wrong tree. Tyrion's statement isn't (necessarily) a continuity error--and Mormont's response to his statement, "And all of them short," seems to confirm your short-season hypothesis--but Gared's almost certainly is, even disregarding Tyrion's statement.

Gared is past fifty; it would simply be impossible for the winter-before-last to take place when Gared was "half a boy". We know that summer had been taking place for nine years as of the beginning of AGoT; and by the time summer ends in the beginning of ACoK, Maester Cressen confirms that the summer, which lasted "ten years, two turns," etc., was "the longest in living memory." So the last winter would have taken place when Gared was in his early forties, at the earliest; counting backwards, the previous winter could not have taken place more than a decade before, when Gared would have been in his early thirties. Using "half a boy" to refer to somebody in their early thirties is stretching the term at best.

[Ser Spidey]

Is there a possibility that Gared was talking about a winter in the past, not necessarily the previous one?

This would explain it, but I can't really tell since I have the Croatian version, where it's translated as 'a winter in the past'. Check your original versions, please.

[Dienekes]

For the Tyrion winter thing. I always thought of it as being 8 or 9 years of winter in his lifetime. I'm not sure if that fits the timeline any better though.

[Ser Spidey]

For the Tyrion winter thing. I always thought of it as being 8 or 9 years of winter in his lifetime. I'm not sure if that fits the timeline any better though.

Where did you get this idea from?

I mean, is it because of a bad translation, or just how you always saw it, although it was written the other way.

[Anthem]

A minor typo: Arys Oakheart is misspelled 'Aerys' in my edition of ACoK. It's a fairly recent edition too, and they really should have fixed it by now.

[Jon Targaryen]

Is there a possibility that Gared was talking about a winter in the past, not necessarily the previous one?

This would explain it, but I can't really tell since I have the Croatian version, where it's translated as 'a winter in the past'. Check your original versions, please.

In the English version, it says "and the one before, when I was half a boy." So it is an error.

[Sarella]

Maybe I'm missing something here, or maybe the site is wrong, but how come Maegor (the cruel) was king between Aenys and Aeny's son? Link to what I'm talking about.

ETA: I thought the throne always passed father to child, unless there is no child. But in this case it has gone from father to brother, THEN to child.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

ETA: I thought the throne always passed father to child, unless there is no child. But in this case it has gone from father to brother, THEN to child.

Well, always except when it doesn't. Theon thinks to himself that it's not unheard of for a strong, ambitious uncle to dispossess a son, and I doubt that's a phenomenon that only occurs in the iron islands.

[Jon Targaryen]

Maybe I'm missing something here, or maybe the site is wrong, but how come Maegor (the cruel) was king between Aenys and Aeny's son? Link to what I'm talking about.

ETA: I thought the throne always passed father to child, unless there is no child. But in this case it has gone from father to brother, THEN to child.

This is not a mistake imo but an irregularity due to the peculiarties of Targaryen marriage and succession customs.

I asked Ran about this years ago in a PM and he thought it was just Maegor usurping the throne and I agreed with him. Since then, more information has come to light. In GRRM's descriptions of Aegon's two sister-wives to Amok, he said Rhaenys, Aenys' mother was younger than Visenya, Maegor's mother. So my guess is that Aenys was born first. So he was technically first in the succession under Andal law. And Aegon wanted his weaker, gentler son to succeed him not the bloodthirsty, cruel Maegor. But after Aenys died, Maegor was Hand and may have started out as Regent to Jaehaerys I. But soon after Aenys' death, he probably made a claim that he should wear the crown since Visenya was the eldest sibling (older than Aegon btw) and he was descended from her.

This is speculation as to events, but not total speculation. It explains the inconsistency well.

[mormont]

FM: I had forgotten Gared's statement, I admit. This is a problem, yes: but could it be that (as a man who's spent most of his life on the Wall) that he's just dismissing any winter shorter than a year or two as not worthy of consideration?