AGOT Mafia 53.5 - The Ankh-Morpork City Watch Masquerade Ball

[House Westerling]

[quote name='Librarian' post='1405745' date='Jun 19 2008, 07.54']Gosh. Please re-evaluate your logic. Recent posts by Hogfather were much less suspicious than the previous ones.[/quote]

Are they? I mean he's certainly more forthcoming--although even with some information his stance on Io doesn't make a lot more sense to me--but he's come back very aggressively. I'd say, at the very least, that the Duck Man is right in that Hogfather, finding himself up in the vote, has decided to attack. Not just Io, but Gytha Ogg as well, who, right now, is a much safer target.

ETA: His replies to the Soul Cake Duck [i]do[/i] make some sense to me though.

[Lady Gaga]

[quote name='Stoneface Vimes' post='1405757' date='Jun 19 2008, 15.04']Are they? I mean he's certainly more forthcoming--although even with some information his stance on Io doesn't make a lot more sense to me--but he's come back very aggressively. I'd say, at the very least, that the Duck Man is right in that Hogfather, finding himself up in the vote, has decided to attack. Not just Io, but Gytha Ogg as well, who, right now, is a much safer target.[/quote]
I don't see Hoggy attacking Nanny Ogg. I only see his comment on her OOC defense, which says nothing about whether he suspects her or not.

And yeah, Hoggy has decided to attack. Which is generally a good thing, and not a point against him. Now if he could let go of his suspicion of BI for a while and concentrate on some other suspects, I'd be one partially satisfied monkey.

[House Westerling]

[quote name='Librarian' post='1405764' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.11']And yeah, Hoggy has decided to attack. Which is generally a good thing, and not a point against him. Now if he could let go of his suspicion of BI for a while and concentrate on some other suspects, I'd be one partially satisfied monkey.[/quote]

Attack is not bad in and of itself, but it is also a good way to deflect attention away from yourself.

I notice that mentioned, a while back, that you had some suspicions about Cohen, can I ask why?

I only ask because the more I read his conversation with the Luggage the more it seems that he either completely misunderstood what the Luggage was saying or he was twisting the Luggage's words a fair bit. I'd be interested to hear someone else's thoughts on our age'd barbarian.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='Librarian' post='1405693' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.12']Please show me where I said this. Please.[/quote]
It was my impression. I don't really understand why you mentioned that train in the context of discussing me.
[quote]That said, now that I know that you were the first to do so, you've slipped down my suspect list.[/quote]Well, now I remember there was some talk about EW/DR controversy being distraction before my post. But I believe what I said was different from that.

[House Targaryen]

Suddenly, the room falls quiet. Every single candle blows out, before mysteriously re-lighting themselves. After a few moments, you all realise...

The stage is empty.

Lord Vetinary is gone.

[Lady Gaga]

[quote name='Gytha Ogg' post='1405734' date='Jun 19 2008, 14.45']Librarian: Aggressive, Strong, wants to dominate. While I might find his style very annoying, I doubt he is guilty.

Death of Rats: Probably the player I would pay the most attention to. Not overly aggressive, but still firm in his positions. About middle of the pack for suspicion.

Esme Weatherwax: Doesn’t let go when she has a suspicion, even after it has been answered a few times :rolleyes: Still, I’d put her in the lower half of the suspicious listing…she drew way too much attention to herself with the argument with DoR.

Blind Io: While I didn’t like the case on him as it was ridiculous I don’t really have a read on him. I’ll keep him in the top half of my list.

Cohen the Barbarian: I had to look him up as I couldn’t remember a single thing he said. His first 6 posts were either jokes, smileys or of no substance; Votes Luggage for his hypocritical vote on Hoggy; Lists his views on Oggy. Esme and Dibble. He then removes his vote on Luggage as he thinks it is not strong enough AND he is not likely to get lynched. Renews his suspicions of Oggy. The problem I have with this is that nothing new had been posted by Oggy when he had increased the suspicions of her. Looks like he was just following Librarian in his suspicions. This puts Cohen near the top of my list (not sure of exact placement until I finish all the players)

Death: If I were to go on vibes Death would be near the bottom of the list, but logic wins more games than vibes do. He votes Greebo for his middle of the road stance;, which I can see and agree with. I really don’t see him as being OVERLY defensive. He’ll be near the bottom of the list as well.

Soul Cake Duck: The main problem I have with him(?) is this post:

It’s like he trying to deliberately not fit the CB profile. I can’t understand why he brought that up. This will put him in the top half of my suspect list.

Ok, I’ll do the other half of the players shortly and rate them all.[/quote]
I was going to wait for the other half, but it seems I'll be leaving soon.

I have 3 problems with this list:

1) Why so suspicious of DoR? I think he looks pretty innocent.

2) You forgot to mention that the CB thing about SCD had already been pointed out by Hoggy. I have no problem with you suspecting him for this, but I have a problem with you trying to make it look like an original argument.

3) Are you saying that your suspicion of Cohen is OMGUS? Or that you feel that he's been sheeping me?

[House Westerling]

[quote name='House Targaryen' post='1405780' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.19']Suddenly, the room falls quiet. Every single candle blows out, before mysteriously re-lighting themselves. After a few moments, you all realise...

The stage is empty.

Lord Vetinary is gone.[/quote]

Wait, did we just lose our victim? Does that effect our investigation in some way. I hope some remembered to dust him for prints and what not.

[Lady Gaga]

[quote name='Soul Cake Duck' post='1405779' date='Jun 19 2008, 15.19']It was my impression. I don't really understand why you mentioned that train in the context of discussing me.[/quote]
Just a minor banana. Had nothing to do with my suspicions of you.
[quote]Well, now I remember there was some talk about EW/DR controversy being distraction before my post. But I believe what I said was different from that.[/quote]
I'd agree on that. However, it's still possible that you've seen that your vote would be falling on fertile ground.

[Lady Gaga]

[quote name='Stoneface Vimes' post='1405772' date='Jun 19 2008, 15.16']Attack is not bad in and of itself, but it is also a good way to deflect attention away from yourself.

I notice that mentioned, a while back, that you had some suspicions about Cohen, can I ask why?

I only ask because the more I read his conversation with the Luggage the more it seems that he either completely misunderstood what the Luggage was saying or he was twisting the Luggage's words a fair bit. I'd be interested to hear someone else's thoughts on our age'd barbarian.[/quote]
I suspected him because I also thought he was twisting Luggage's words and because of possible fake-symping of Hoggy, who I don't think is guilty. I don't remember it very clearly, so I'll probably re-read it when I get back.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='Gytha Ogg' post='1405734' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.45']It’s like he trying to deliberately not fit the CB profile. I can’t understand why he brought that up.[/quote]Because I needed to convince Librarian of his suspections being wrong. Then, word by word... Librarian used wording "CB profile" twice or thrice before that, so I used it also.

Ghyta, Librarian evidently voted you because of suspecting you. Did you vote Dibbler (and wanted to vote two others) because of suspicion or because you wanted them to talk more?

[House Redfort]

Ricewind: He defended Death, then defended those voting for Death; Finds the conversation between Esme and DoR distracting; doesn’t vote anyone. Can’t get more middle of the road than this. He goes near the top of my list.

The Luggage: Comes on strong, then fades away. No clear read on him. Put him around the middle, maybe just bellow.

Stone Faced Vimes: He’s a very middle of the road poster. Need to hear more from him.

Hogfather: He’s hard to place. I don’t find him as suspicious as others have (and I was really wishing I would :P ) There is not that much to go on though. Hopefully as he seems to be here, he’ll post a lot more and give us a clearer view of his innocence or not.

Greebo: Another gut comment, and I hope I can back this one up as well: Gut says suspicious. This post bothers me:

[quote name='Greedo' post='1404650' date='Jun 18 2008, 15.53']Please share my what? :P


I think Death's over-defensive post is the only thing that seems mildly suspicious thus far.

And I think Gytha's innnuendo is, uh, unfortunate. ;)

A bit busy, atm. Be back in a few hours, I hope.[/quote]

He is most suspicious of Death, ,but doesn’t vote for him.

His discussion with Death is also worrisome. It feels like he is unwilling to vote someone who voted for him. I know he justifies his change, but there is something about that just doesn’t ring true for me:

[quote name='Greedo' post='1404923' date='Jun 18 2008, 18.58']You're grasping at straws, Big D. I commented on Hoggy's 'strategy', not questioned it. I wanted to judge his reaction, which, since he left, hasn't occurred. Someone throwing votes around that early in the game when most of us are just playing around isn't suspicious to me by itself. :dunno: How he reacted could have been. I commented on your defensiveness but didn't vote for you because one odd move does not equal guilty, and we have plenty of time left for me to put a vote down. The way you reacted to the accusation of being defensive has mollified me.

As it is, I find Grytha Ogg rather worrisome. She hasn't done anything beyond smile, be nice and cheerful, and vote for the guy with one post of no importance. Other than a desire to put a vote down suddenly for a reason I personally don't understand, perhaps she's trying to move out of your list of 'potential bandwaggoners'?

Right now, I'm in 'wait and see' mode, D. I'll lay a vote down before my bedtime, and I'll be around until then, but that's the best you're gonna get from me. You feel free to play aggressively for the both of us, k? I'm sure you can handle it. :kiss:

And by the way, you spelled my name wrong. :([/quote]

Greebo was then replaced so it is hard to bridge the two. Still, Greebo is near the top of my list.

Offler: The number one hypocrite in the game. He claims is waiting for more input from others yet hasn’t contributed anything himself. 8 hours ago he went to do a reread and never came back. Near top of list.

Dibbler: I suspect he is suffering from a lack of experience, but that says noting to his guilt. No read in that direction

Duck Man: only 2 posts is not enough to judge. I wouldn’t mind pressure votes on him if we were still over 10 hrs from the deadline.

[House Redfort]

[quote name='Soul Cake Duck' post='1405794' date='Jun 19 2008, 09.27']Because I needed to convince Librarian of his suspections being wrong. Then, word by word... Librarian used wording "CB profile" twice or thrice before that, so I used it also.

Ghyta, Librarian evidently voted you because of suspecting you. Did you vote Dibbler (and wanted to vote two others) because of suspicion or because you wanted them to talk more?[/quote]


It was a pressure vote, as the others would have been...kind of hard to suspect a person who says nothing.
(but easy to vote them, especially later in the game)

[Lady Gaga]

All right, I'm out.

I'd like you all to look at Nanny Ogg.

I'd like Offler to post more, Rincewind to take stronger stances. Same can be applied to Dibbler, who I don't suspect though.

I'd like Hoggy to post more since I'm tired of defendiong him.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='Gytha Ogg' post='1405799' date='Jun 19 2008, 09.29']It was a pressure vote, as the others would have been...kind of hard to suspect a person who says nothing.[/quote]And does it make sense to press people who are absent?

[Lady Gaga]

[quote name='Soul Cake Duck' post='1405794' date='Jun 19 2008, 15.27']Because I needed to convince Librarian of his suspections being wrong. Then, word by word... Librarian used wording "CB profile" twice or thrice before that, so I used it also.[/quote]
Look, when you defend yourself, you need to shoot down your accuser's arguments by logic. You haven't done this-you've just said 'Um, maybe you're right, that evidence does point toward me being a killer, but I've got something here that doesn't!' which is absurd. You shouldn't boost-you should defend.

Plus, it can be interpreted as overdefensive-I've never once mentioned CB regarding you, but regarding Nanny Ogg.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='Librarian' post='1405811' date='Jun 19 2008, 09.35']Look, when you defend yourself, you need to shoot down your accuser's arguments by logic. You haven't done this-you've just said 'Um, maybe you're right, that evidence does point toward me being a killer, but I've got something here that doesn't!' which is absurd.[/quote]

Initially you said:
[quote]You vote a more obvious train among the two, since Death was no longer broadly
suspected.[/quote]
As if it was arguement against me. I tried to explain why it wasn't.

[quote]Plus, it can be interpreted as overdefensive-I've never once mentioned CB regarding you, but regarding Nanny Ogg.[/quote]No difference. I repeated a term used in discussion already.

[House Redfort]

My summary is this:

Greebo and Offler are my top suspects followed closely by Ricewind and Cohen. In the middle I have Blind Io, Soul Cake Duck, Death of Rats, Hogfather and Luggage in that order. I have no read on Stone Face Vimes, Dibbler and Duckman. I don’t have any suspicions of Esme, Death and Librarian.

While I would prefer [b] Greebo[/b] or Offler, I would vote any but the last 3 to get a lynch.

[House Westerling]

[quote name='Librarian' post='1405793' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.26']I suspected him because I also thought he was twisting Luggage's words and because of possible fake-symping of Hoggy, who I don't think is guilty. I don't remember it very clearly, so I'll probably re-read it when I get back.[/quote]

Fair enough, I'll be interested to read it when you post, though aside from the dust up with Luggage there's not a lot to read.

[House Ashford]

[quote name='Librarian' post='1405700' date='Jun 19 2008, 14.17']Would you, say, vote Offler over Hogfather? Why?[/quote]

Yes.

Because Offler is a big questiomark for me, while Hogfather has contributed and I don't suspect him much.

[House Frey]

[quote name='Duck Man' post='1405712' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.24']And now that Hogfather's posted some more, I find him to be very confrontational.

He's seems determined for some reason to build a case against Blind IO which, as far as I can see, is based on straw.[/quote]
Determined to build a case against Blind Io? I've mentioned several things he's done that have bothered me and [i]I[/i] find them to be logical. However, I have been mentioning some other people and likely will continue to do so as they take my attention more. Like Gytha, but mostly Fruit Cake Duck.

[quote name='Stoneface Vimes' post='1405733' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.44']Well, at least that is some sort of reason for voting him, but I now wonder, are you saying that you voted him because he was suspiciously helpful, or was it just pressure a player and get the game running? I guess what I really want to to know is whether you're suspicious of Io for that one particular post.[/quote]
Both. Yes, I was (and still am somewhat) suspicious of him for that post. Sometimes a post just hits you wrong as it goes down as that one did for me. If you don't find it suspicious, that's fine because I can see how others wouldn't think so, but I, frankly, do.

[quote name='Stoneface Vimes' post='1405733' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.44']I would happily believe either. I only mentioned the first as a possibility. I do wonder, however, why you choose sarcasm over explanation. I note that you still haven't claimed the second position yourself, although I suppose that you mean to imply it.[/quote]
Sarcasm can be explanation, no? Do I really need to spell out which? Even if it was the first, I clearly would not own up to it.

[quote name='Gytha Ogg' post='1405734' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.45']Librarian: Aggressive, Strong, wants to dominate. While I might find his style very annoying, I doubt he is guilty.[/quote]
Why is it annoying? Because he's put pressure on you?
[quote name='Gytha Ogg' post='1405734' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.45']Death of Rats: Probably the player I would pay the most attention to. Not overly aggressive, but still firm in his positions. About middle of the pack for suspicion.[/quote]
Pay the most attention to...as in trusting or suspecting?
[quote name='Gytha Ogg' post='1405734' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.45']It’s like he trying to deliberately not fit the CB profile. I can’t understand why he brought that up. This will put him in the top half of my suspect list.

Ok, I’ll do the other half of the players shortly and rate them all.[/quote]
Thank you for parroting my argument.

[quote name='Duck Man' post='1405735' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.45']I wonder if he's worried about the fact that he's the leading candidate, but instead of deflecting people's concerns about him, he's trying to make someone else suspicious.[/quote]
What exactly do you suspect me for? I'm not really even sure what I've done (I suppose maybe it is what I've not done) that has garnered the suspicion that I have. I'm not all that concerned and I find that my time would be best spent looking for evils rather than defending myself, if there is anything to defend for.

[quote name='Gytha Ogg' post='1405738' date='Jun 19 2008, 08.48']I spend 4-6 hours a day on this game, if that is not enough, you can step off the edge
of the world.[/quote]
[Seinfeld]Oh yes, this is all very sophisticated.[/Seinfeld] Why be so unnecessarily aggressive (in the bad way)? Particularly right after last game.

[quote name='Librarian' post='1405801' date='Jun 19 2008, 09.30']I'd like Hoggy to post more since I'm tired of defendiong him.[/quote]
I can take over from here thanks. :)


Also, Fruit Cake Duck, please respond to what I've said to you. You've been ignoring it and I don't like that sort of thing.