House Stokeworth Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='The Showgirl' post='1492790' date='Aug 24 2008, 13.24']Jazz, it's wrong. If I wouldn't interfere, Couture would be in a rather good position. Her investigation results mean that me or Canary or both are guilty. To prove it's wrong, we should lynch both me and Canary, two more days, three players left, two evils among them, killer's win. The fact which killed her was my knowledge that Canary can't be alone killer. It's very bad luck to her, if I'd reread Pirate earlier, I'd most likely guard Tarina last night.[/quote] [quote name='Miss Aquamarine' post='1492800' date='Aug 24 2008, 13.39']Fair point about Toujours' suspect list Diva, but I'm really concerned that it points in a completely opposite direction that most were thinking at that point in time (Canary and Hard rock as PI). If she only needs to get one lynch for her team to win (eek) then it's worth the risk. If they need two days to win, she could say her random innocent is the next night kill (as all night actions happen simultaneously) and take her chances that they can sway some people, or use their single-mindedness to their advantage (I'm looking at you Canary). I don't know what the odds are, but I'm sure Toujours does.[/quote] Okay, you've both convinced me on that point. Be back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Yronwood Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1492776' date='Aug 24 2008, 12.12']3) Aqua/Hard Rock as symp to Couture and Tarina.[/quote] Really? Me as symp to [i]Couture[/i] or Tarina? I'll have to re-read to find the logic in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Targaryen Posted August 24, 2008 Author Share Posted August 24, 2008 It is day 4. 7 players remain: Black Canary, Hard Rock Cafe, Jazz Diva, Miss Aquamarine, Tarina Tarantino, The Showgirl, Toujours Couture. 4 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night. 1 vote for Black Canary (Tarina Tarantino) 1 vote for Hard Rock Cafe (Black Canary) 1 vote for The Showgirl (Toujours Couture) 1 vote for Toujours Couture (The Showgirl) 3 players have not voted: Hard Rock Cafe, Jazz Diva, Miss Aquamarine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Pommingham Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1492532' date='Aug 24 2008, 12.13']AM I THE ONLY PERSON WITHOUT A ROLE!??!?![/quote] I didn't get one either, which is a pity. I could have used a role in a game like this. [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1492677' date='Aug 24 2008, 17.15']There are only 3 possibilities here. [u]Couture = true, Showgirl = false[/u] In this scenario, Showgirl is one of the following 1) lone FM with unknown symp, 2) FM partnered with Canary, 3) symp to Canary, who is the last living FM. Everyone else is either a symp or innocent. [u]Couture = false, Showgirl = true[/u] In this scenario, Showgirl/Canary have to be symp or innocent. Couture has to be symp or FM. Tarina/Aqua can also be symp or FM. [u]Couture = true, Showgirl = true[/u] This is pretty far fetched, but its what Couture is suggesting right now. It [u]only[/u] works if Aqua is a symp to Hard Rock and/or Canary.[/quote] Actually there are more possibilities if you rule in absurd behavior, like an innocent false revealing finder and then clearing someone randomly. Of course this just shouldn't happen in a normal mafia game... but memento Kat. You may say Piper wouldn't put a Godfather role in without warning, but I think there are some pretty freaky things going on in this game and I for one got no warning. Of all the revealers I would tend to believe Couture. Her codes seem pretty intricate and well thought out, and I really don't think a guilty player would have false revealed such an outlandish role. The other three reveals I'm not so sure about. I think the weakest by far is Showgirls'. She says this, which I don't agree with at all: [quote name='The Showgirl' post='1492524' date='Aug 24 2008, 11.55']I have no codes also, but I have some indirect proof. Remember how sure I was that Kat was killed by a vig? It was because I guarded Pepper night before and I strongly hoped him to be last killer at that moment.[/quote] (I don't think that proves anything, directly or indirectly). She also doesn't tell us who she guarded on any other night, which I think is important information (unless she's a one time guard, which she didn't specify). [quote name='The Showgirl' post='1492613' date='Aug 24 2008, 15.22']Returning to older staff: now it's quite evident that Kat was killed by FMs, not by a vig. But, again, why? They knew she lied about Medusa, why they totally dismissed possibility of her being their symp? Now, after rereading her, I see very probable answer. All day 1 and half of day 2, The Pirate demonstrated strong desire to lynch Tarina. Tarina is only player whose symp Kat evidently couldn't be.[/quote] This is actually a clever thought, which is a pity because it's wrong. Even if I was FM and thought Pirate was very unlikely to be my symp, what did I have to fear from her? Who was going to believe her about anything after false revealing finder and framing Medusa? I could simply have accused her of being a symp and got her lynched (and earned brownie points for myself for being the symp's target). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Reed Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Okay, if we look at Black Canary's posts over days 3 and 4, we have nothing through all of day 3, then a vote for me that is not backed up by anything except that she was right once, and is thus right again, which seems to me like a poor reason to make a vote. Next, she explains to Couture her reasoning behind suspecting Jazz, but still gives no reason for going after me nearly the whole game. Next, we have post 616 [quote]Hard Rock in post 612 above is using the word "unsettling" describing me, unsettled being the word used to suggest a shocked symp. She says she was unsettled for diffeent reasons. I think this is an attempt to subtly imply symp-ness!!! I am inclined to believe Toujours is lying, though the code has unsettled me a little on that.[/quote] She says "unsettled" suggests a shocked symp, then says unsettled soon after that. Honestly, it looks a little [i]too[/i] obvious, but, still, it might mean something. That said, I think Tarina is looking more innocent than Canary. Edit: next will be either Couture or Showgirl. Maybe both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Baratheon Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Hard Rock Cafe' post='1492837' date='Aug 24 2008, 14.33']She says "unsettled" suggests a shocked symp, then says unsettled soon after that. Honestly, it looks a little [i]too[/i] obvious, but, still, it might mean something.[/quote] You are turning EXACTLY what I said about you round to attack me? Incredible. Did you not understand me? Jazz Diva said that "maybe the symp is unsettled by the master" IE - I could've been attacking my symp - you, in this theory - an action which would shock you. Therefore you are the "shocked symp" who was "unsettled". In your response to Jazz Diva's post you said yes, you were "unsettled", but for a different reason. The reason wasn't all that substantial. I stated that the fact you used "unsettled" about yourself - the word that Jazz Diva used when suggesting you could be a symp, [i]unsettled [/i]by me, could indicate that you were trying to imply that there was substance to what Jazz was saying. Therefore you could either be fake-symping me, or you really are a symp - to someone else might I add - and want me dead anyway. This second scenario is unlikely, but it's ballsy enough that it could work if enough suspicion is built up about me; there is obviously some out there, I have a vote on me. Even if you were considered proven as a symp, if it was [i]my[/i] symp, then I'd get lynched to stop a kill. You'd be safe 'til tomorrow, and your real master would also be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Reed Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote]You are turning EXACTLY what I said about you round to attack me? Incredible.[/quote] Ok, I think I need to rephrase that original comment... I find it... [unsettling, disturbing, worrisome] (whichever of those you like) that anyone would focus so much on one person the whole game. I'm not fake symping, I just find your obsession with getting me lynched a little weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Reed Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Toujours Coutue evaluation: [quote]Well lots has seemed to happen but if I recall your last post said Pepper would be your top choice for a lynch but I would be a good candidate too: fast forward to now and the top suspect (by votes) is Pepper followed by me, so I guess our basic suspcions haven't changed.[/quote] Doesn't seem too worried about being the second place for most suspicious. And in post 516 she reveals as a passive finder, and claims that Aqua, Tarina, and Diva are all innocent as well, indirectly meaning I am innocent, and thus giving us two possible lynches (if she is telling the truth), Canary and Showgirl, then states that Canary would be a good FM because she is clever, but Showgirl is more immediately suspicious. My opinion on Toujours will come after I look at Showgirl, whom she seems to be having some conflict with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tully Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='The Showgirl' post='1492790' date='Aug 24 2008, 18.24']Jazz, it's wrong. If I wouldn't interfere, Couture would be in a rather good position. Her investigation results mean that me or Canary or both are guilty. To prove it's wrong, we should lynch both me and Canary, two more days, three players left, two evils among them, killer's win. The fact which killed her was my knowledge that Canary can't be alone killer. It's very bad luck to her, if I'd reread Pirate earlier, I'd most likely guard Tarina last night.[/quote] Look I've said all I can about myself - I have explained my role given my code and shown a consistent style with it. From my point of view only Hard Rock, Black Canary or Showgirl can be outright FM though anyone could be a symp. This may be bad luck as you put it but I can't help that. My gut does tell me that Showgirl is innocent or a symp, not a plain FM but if I find her almost point blank refusal to consider that I might be telling the truth perhaps consistent with her claim but certainly suspicious. My position is actually very simple - of the three possible FM to me, Hard Rock is vouched for by Aqua, Showgirl my gut trusts to some extent: i have to vote for [b]Black Canary[/b]. I hope I can convince you I am telling the truth if you want to ask me any questions to help me prove my innocence then do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Miss Aquamarine' post='1492812' date='Aug 24 2008, 13.47']Really? Me as symp to [i]Couture[/i] or Tarina? I'll have to re-read to find the logic in that.[/quote] Can you point to evidence that indicates you can't be a symp to Couture or Tarina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Reed Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote]My position is actually very simple - of the three possible FM to me, Hard Rock is vouched for by Aqua, Showgirl my gut trusts to some extent: i have to vote for Black Canary. I hope I can convince you I am telling the truth if you want to ask me any questions to help me prove my innocence then do.[/quote] Ok, I have one. You say you trust Showgirl, but in posts 565, 566, and 578, she basically says you are lying, then votes for you. Why do you trust her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Tarina Tarantino' post='1492832' date='Aug 24 2008, 14.22']I didn't get one either, which is a pity. I could have used a role in a game like this.[/quote] Do you have an explanation for why you came up with a theory attacking me and Canary based on fake distancing, and yet you ignored the possibility that Couture's case on Kitty could have been fake distancing as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Yronwood Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1492918' date='Aug 24 2008, 15.14']Can you point to evidence that indicates you can't be a symp to Couture or Tarina?[/quote] [quote name='Miss Aquamarine' post='1492399' date='Aug 23 2008, 22.01']In order, my suspects are ... Toujours Diva Showgirl Tarina Canary Hard Rock[/quote] [quote name='Miss Aquamarine' post='1492754' date='Aug 24 2008, 11.49']I just don't believe Couture is telling the truth.... I'd be ready to vote but I don't think Canary has checked back in?[/quote] That if I am her symp I am doing an incredibly bad job of keeping her safe. If I am her symp and she wants me discredited to VPI herself, why reveal me as a 'random' innocent? Diva, you're looking more and more like a FM who is running out of options. edit: it was your belief that I was symping for Couture that I was disputing, not Tarina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Pommingham Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1492921' date='Aug 24 2008, 22.16']Do you have an explanation for why you came up with a theory attacking me and Canary based on fake distancing, and yet you ignored the possibility that Couture's case on Kitty could have been fake distancing as well?[/quote] Not one you're bound to like, but yes: what you and Canary were doing seemed to me as distancing, and what Toujours did didn't. Toujours case seemed genuine (despite the fact he toned it down). Canary's case on you didn't, nor did your remarks concerning Canary and Kitty. Despite me believing Toujours' claim to a certain extent, I can't help this feeling you're evil. I'm also willing to lynch Canary today though. As has been pointed out, there are so many roles out there that it's practically impossible that they're all genuine. I've given my reasons why I believe Toujours, but I certainly admit it's difficult to see who's genuine and who isn't. Kat's seemingly absurd reveal also lingers in my mind. That's why I think I'm going to close my eyes and trust my instincts. My instinct tells me Canary and Diva. Let it be Canary today for Couture's reveal's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Miss Aquamarine' post='1492934' date='Aug 24 2008, 16.34']That if I am her symp I am doing an incredibly bad job of keeping her safe.[/quote] Okay, I'll cross that off the list. Appreciate you pointing it out, instead of making me do all of the work. [quote name='Aqua']Diva, you're looking more and more like a FM who is running out of options.[/quote] Thats probably the most ridiculous thing anybody has said the entire game. Which is really saying something. 1) In case you missed it, if I was FM I'd have pretty much every option possible open to me. Could go after pretty much anybody right now. I can't fathom why you would suggest otherwise. 2) I have put a ridiculous amount of time into trying to figure this out. Say whatever you want about WIFOM. When I'm evil, I tend to use focused cases to push my agenda. I don't spend hours and hours and hours going through all of the possible permutations. Its way too much work. I sure as hell don't stay up until 6 a.m. trying to figure things out. Why bother, if you already know it all. I could have easily just copped out and said 'see you in the morning' last night. Instead, I stayed and kept posting, because I was caught up in trying to figure out the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Toujours Couture' post='1492668' date='Aug 24 2008, 10.55']Ok. Take the word finder. Translate the letters into numbers (a is 1 etc.) you get [i]6,9,14,4,5,18[/i]. Type that into Google and the first result is a page on crystal structure something by M Parvez. I got an India first name beginning with M off the internet.[/quote] I googled those numbers. The first result was a religious page. Nothing about M Parvez or a crystal structure. I did google M Parvez and crystal and found the guy you were talking about. But I'm curious as to why your code is broken. Any explanation? Anybody else want to check on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Yronwood Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 At this point I am torn. I do believe Toujours is a Bad Barbie. Question is - is she a symp or full fledged killing machine? If she is a symp, I see her master as one of either Diva or Tarina and it's really important we don't mess up this lynch today. If we vote for Toujours and she is just a symp we will reduce their voting block and still have a chance, however, we will not have bagged a killer. If she is a symp and there are two killers left, well then, likely we are screwed anyway. If Showgirl was her master, I don't see why Showgirl would have cleared Canary. If Canary was her master I don't see why she would be voting for Canary now (duh) I could possibly be her master and she gave me the all clear, but it's her word against mine and that is the question you have to answer for yourself. Hard Rock cannot be her master as I cleared her (and I know I'm telling the truth) Tarina - you claim to believe Toujour, but you still vote for Diva - whom she cleared. Explain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tully Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1492951' date='Aug 24 2008, 21.53']I googled those numbers. The first result was a religious page. Nothing about M Parvez or a crystal structure. I did google M Parvez and crystal and found the guy you were talking about. But I'm curious as to why your code is broken. Any explanation? Anybody else want to check on this?[/quote] Ok it worked when I set it up and when I revealed - it also works now but you have to use google.co.uk and click pages fom the UK. That may reveal something about my alt but that can't be helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Reed Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Jazz Diva, I got the same result when I googled the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 [quote name='Toujours Couture' post='1492959' date='Aug 24 2008, 16.57']Ok it worked when I set it up and when I revealed - it also works now but you have to use google.co.uk and click pages fom the UK. That may reveal something about my alt but that can't be helped.[/quote] That fixed it. Had to use the UK version. [quote name='Hard Rock']Jazz Diva, I got the same result when I googled the numbers.[/quote] Have you come to any conclusions? Who do you think is lying - Couture or Showgirl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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