Just saw "Ghost in the Shell 2"

[The Anti-Targ]

Well, it's just that throughout watching the movie I was thinking this particular style of animation would work great for ASOIAF.

Yeah I know live action for the pilot is a done deal, (and for the series if it gets over the remaining hurdles) so this is pure alternate universe, imaginary stuff. But I reckon stylish animation could have been a hit for the series.

[Ran]

[i]Ghost in the Shell 2[/i] had a budget of $20 million and took several years to make, I think. The production values of high-end anime feature films is quite high, and can't be matched on a TV series budget short of it being [i]Rome[/i]-sized ... and if it is, it's going to be a guaranteed dismal failure in relation to the returns because, lets face it, animation is not that popular among adults in the U.S.

[i]Ghost in the Shell 2[/i] was also a box-office failure. So, too, was the similarly-budgetted (and nine years in the making) [i]Steamboy[/i]. With DVD and merchanding rights, doubtless these ended up turning a fair profit. But their performance in U.S. screenings is especially dismal and shows, I think, that this sort of high-end "adult" animation is very much a niche.

[Venardhi]

in the defense of animation, Steamboy was written pretty broadly and turned out to be pretty "meh" as a whole. Animation productions tend to have a hard time reaching adult audiences because they either fail to be maturely written or try too hard to be 'mature' and end up appealing only to young adults who think it is edgy and 'badass' to see guys constantly cut in half and exploded.

I, for one, think animation could be a very good medium for the series if the writing was held to the same standard of the books.

[Ran]

What's the last popular animated adult drama in the U.S. in feature films or television?

I can't think of any coming to mind at the moment. Why would anyone want to use ASoIaF as an experiment to see whether it could be the first? I'm sure it would look very nice and everything, but it would suddenly become very niche indeed.

[MrSarichFan]

[quote name='Ran' post='1607836' date='Dec 3 2008, 14.14']What's the last popular animated adult drama in the U.S. in feature films or television?[/quote]

Death Note?

[ogbebaba]

[quote name='Ran' post='1607836' date='Dec 3 2008, 15.14']What's the last popular animated adult drama in the U.S. in feature films or television?[/quote]

:dunno:
:unsure:
:idea:

Heavy Metal?
:mellow:

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='Ran' post='1607257' date='Dec 4 2008, 00.07'][i]Ghost in the Shell 2[/i] had a budget of $20 million and took several years to make, I think. The production values of high-end anime feature films is quite high, and can't be matched on a TV series budget short of it being [i]Rome[/i]-sized ... and if it is, it's going to be a guaranteed dismal failure in relation to the returns because, lets face it, animation is not that popular among adults in the U.S.

[i]Ghost in the Shell 2[/i] was also a box-office failure. So, too, was the similarly-budgetted (and nine years in the making) [i]Steamboy[/i]. With DVD and merchanding rights, doubtless these ended up turning a fair profit. But their performance in U.S. screenings is especially dismal and shows, I think, that this sort of high-end "adult" animation is very much a niche.[/quote]

ASOIAF is gonna be niche too. Though as live action niche I accept it will be a larger niche than if it was anime.

I am a bit of an anime fan, though I wouldn't say I am a full on anime geek.

A well done ASOIAF live action full series can't be done on the cheap without it looking cheap. A cheap looking ASOIAF will more likely fail than succeed. So I reckon on a cost basis it would be pretty much of a muchness between the two.

I don't know enough about how long one would take vs. the other.

I was overzealous in thinking it could be a hit, given I should have assumed that serious dramatic anime is not a crowd puller in the USA. But I do still think I'm right in saying it would work well with ASOIAF, even if only for those who like this form of animation, and for those willing to give it a go on the basis of the source material.

[Jakob Lightbringer]

[quote name='Ran' post='1607836' date='Dec 3 2008, 13.14']What's the last popular animated adult drama in the U.S. in feature films or television?[/quote]

Beowulf (Director Robert Zemekis, Screenplay: Neil Gaiman, Roger Avary)
It had a budget of 150 million (US).
Its opening weekend showed a gross of 27.5 million.
Its current domestic gross is over 82 million.
Its current worldwide gross is over 196 million.

[Ran]

Well, to quibble, [i]Beowulf[/i] is technically a box office failure, as such things go. If you factor in marketing costs (Paramount apparently had a huge marketing budget for it), it's likely not even broken even, and it very much under-performed Zemeckis's last similar film, [i]Polar Express[/i]. Obviously, merchandising + DVD and so on, it probably has broken even and then some.

As I recall (and a quick Google confirms), a month out there were predictions that it would have a $50 million+ opening weekend based on tracking, and it did less than half that. It was popular among a very narrowly targetted group (that 11-34 man-child group), and they did see it, but pretty much no one else seems to have bothered.

But it's a quibble. People did see it, so it's not like it's a bomb. I should probably have written it as "traditionally animated film".

[Oorag]

It's been a while since I saw GitS 2, but as I recall, I didn't think they blended the CGI with the traditional animation very well. I thought it clashed and it took me right out of the story.

[feyrband]

if you're looking for asoiaf-ish Anime check out Berserk. good characters, kingdoms at war, and a just a touch of fantasy. its about as close as i think i've seen and most people i know enjoy it. still not really that popular among adults, but more mature nonetheless.

[G'Kar]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1610564' date='Dec 5 2008, 15.53']It's been a while since I saw GitS 2, but as I recall, I didn't think they blended the CGI with the traditional animation very well. I thought it clashed and it took me right out of the story.[/quote]

Oorag,

Dude, I love your avatar. :bow: Best...movie scene...ever!

OP: Don't think GITS2 animation would look good for AGoT. AGoT is steeped in European Medievalism and realism, while anime tends to look unreal in terms of body look and mechanics, as well as the environment.

[Red Sun]

I'm pretty much of the same opinion as Anti-Targ. I think that animation would be a great medium for ASOIAF and other fantasy stories. I'm a fan of anything animated. However, as Ran said, it would never be something else than a test, and it would probably fail, because animation will never reach the mainstream in western countries and therefore not make enough money.

Regarding Ghost in the Shell 2: While the animation is great, the story was much weaker than the story of the first film. And I also have to agree with the meh feeling about Steamboy. It's an incredibly gorgeous anime, but the story is not particularly complex. Otomo tells much better stories in short comics or short movies, except Akira.

[Serfdom]

This may sound harsh:

ASOIAF would be idiotic as an animated series.
The whole reason this series is excellent is due to dialogue and characterization.

It would work well in 2 mediums 1 in book form because we can imagine what characters look and sound like and their facial expressions and mannerisms. We can also imagine the setting based on GRRM's word quite intricately.

Via human actors and "real" settings people are able to convey emotions and the nuances of inferred meaning of dialogue through facial expressions and body language.

However, in animation the rendering of people's facial expressions would be a joke. One of the reasons why I dislike anime is because the facial expressions and they way they convery emotion is rendered is such broad strokes. If someone is angry the facial expressions are completely over the top. This could not work in ASOIAF where much of the dialogue and relationships between the characters are subtle.

Anyways just my 2 cents

[Venardhi]

You're painting anime with a pretty broad brush there. Nothing says that it has to have overstated expression or excessively dramatic pausing and shouting.

[gippu]

I'm reminded of 'Record of Lodoss War' when I think of an animated ASOIAF. I'm a very huge anime fan but I don't think ASOIAF would make for a good anime compared to a live action adaptation. Nevertheless, fantasy anime can be very successful without being all angsty and shouen, Twelve Kindoms (Juuni Kokki) anyone?. I'd vouch for B.O.N.E.S to do the animation if the where to be an animated series.

[Red Sun]

[quote name='gippu' post='1612275' date='Dec 8 2008, 09.55']I'm reminded of 'Record of Lodoss War' when I think of an animated ASOIAF. I'm a very huge anime fan but I don't think ASOIAF would make for a good anime compared to a live action adaptation. Nevertheless, fantasy anime can be very successful without being all angsty and shouen, Twelve Kindoms (Juuni Kokki) anyone?. I'd vouch for B.O.N.E.S to do the animation if the where to be an animated series.[/quote]

Record of Lodoss War is not a particularly good anime. It might be interesting for people, very much invested in D&D, but the character designs are generic and boring. It all depends how much money can be spend for animation. So, a very good animated series is very expensive.

[hyacine_martell]

[quote name='feyrband' post='1610944' date='Dec 6 2008, 01.51']if you're looking for asoiaf-ish Anime check out Berserk. good characters, kingdoms at war, and a just a touch of fantasy. its about as close as i think i've seen and most people i know enjoy it. still not really that popular among adults, but more mature nonetheless.[/quote]

Berserk rules! That had some deep, dark stuff going on. Fantastic characters. And brutal as all hell. Of course, the manga makes it look like Mother Goose.....

I liked Record of Lodoss War. Some parts were cheesy, generic and unintentionally hilarious (lots of parts actually...) but some very lush animation on the whole.

Anyway...Berserk rules!

Live action ASOIAF is still my preferred medium, however.