House Clegane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Kreese' post='1721997' date='Mar 17 2009, 11.29']Am I the only one who has been a bit surprised by Miyagi's explanation?[/quote]I am not surprized. I suppose it's a problem of wording. Hall wasn't easy target in classical sense, but he still was good choice for non-confrontational player to attack. Karl definitely ended appearing easy target, but it become clear only after first attacks on him. Bye Kreese... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kreese...that's a bit unexpected. I would have guessed one of the other talking reasonable people. Johnny, I think Kreese wanted to say that Karl was much easier target than Hall. Quote marks would have helped. Alas we will never know now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Clegane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I've reread Kreese. His main concerns were me and Miyagi (and Johnny, but Johnny was everybody's concern). More importantly, he wasn't suspected by anybody, which might explain the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 So, Kreese: [quote name='Kreese' post='1721295' date='Mar 16 2009, 20.09']I don't agree with Hall that Espinoza's first post was suspicious. I am also not concerned about Espinoza's claim that he didn't knew what he was doing, because I forgot myself that the first poster would become referee.* However, I also don't suspect Hall very much, because I can see where he was coming from and I belong to those that think that he was right to state his suspicion today. I don't think that his argument was destined to sow confusion or to influence the referee. I raised my eyebrows (in a karateka way) when I read [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=34855&view=findpost&p=1720628"]Jonny's theory[/url] about Hall being a possible symp to Espinoza. I mean wtf? Why would a symp accuse his master with his first move? A symp is not supposed to do that. And yes, Jonny said hiself that he did not really believe in that theory himself, but he introduced it to us nonetheless for a reason unknown to me. What was the pint of telling us something that Jonny did not believe in himself? But then Bobby's post here is also ringing my bells: It has been pointed out that this post was a bit to straightforward. I agree with that, but then this post is also very subtle. Bobby is not really accusing Hall here, he isn't saying that he thinks he is suspicious ("it's hard to say without hearing from him more"). What he [i]is [/i]doing is to set up Hall as a possible lynch candidate, and he is also definitely discrediting Hall's valueness for the innocents. So, Bobby has been fueling the suspicion on Hall while he did at the same time not commit himself to something himself. Karl - he has gathered some suspicions by saying that there's not much going on and that most likely Hall will bite the dust because Espinoza has no other options. I disagree with Karl wholeheartedly, but then I think he was just saying what he was thinking - which isn't a sign of guilt to me. So yeah, Karl should try a bit more to add to the discussion, but I donät suspect him very much right now. I have a good impression by Dutch, Myagi and Daniel. That said, I suspect [b]Bobby[/b] and [b]Jonny [/b]most of all right now.[/quote] Doesn't find Hall or Espinoza suspicious (at least, for the things people were suspecting them for). Not particularly suspicious of Karl. Suspects Jonny and Bobby, likes Dutch, Myagi and Daniel. [quote name='Kreese' post='1721370' date='Mar 16 2009, 21.19']Good point about Vidal. I would like to hear an explanation by Vidal. Why did he miss Dutch's case? Why did he even ask Dutch about it, when afterwards he didn't follow that issue anymore? Btw I am convinced that Vidal is in fact bored and is waiting for day 2.[/quote] Wants an explanation from Vidal, but doesn't seem to particularly like him. [quote name='Kreese' post='1721427' date='Mar 16 2009, 21.58']I'd like to know if Mr Miyagi thinks that his case on you also applies to those who are suspecting Karl (=easy target).[/quote] Questions Miyagi without suggesting suspicion. [quote name='Kreese' post='1721527' date='Mar 16 2009, 23.27']The fact that Daniel has finally come up with two suspects doesn't change the fact that he didn't have any suspcions before. I am surprised that he did expect that naming two suspects after being called for it would make us forget his former gentleness.[/quote] Now suspects Daniel, in agreement with Dutch. [quote name='Kreese' post='1721546' date='Mar 16 2009, 23.45']Unsurprisingly I am fine with that.[/quote] Is fine with lynching Jonny. [quote name='Kreese' post='1721558' date='Mar 17 2009, 00.00']I will go to bed soon. Before that I'd like to throw this idea here into the ring: If some of the top suspects should own the Championship Committe role, they should probably reveal tomorrow to reduce the suspect pool. Right now I am thinking about Karl, Vidal and possibly Ali.[/quote] Wants reveals from Karl, Vidal and me, as his current top suspects. [quote name='Kreese' post='1721997' date='Mar 17 2009, 09.29']Hmmmmg, Kreese-San ain't very happy about the Ref's decision. Kreese also does not understand Miyagi's explanation about "easy" targets. Karl was not an easy target, because he behaved that suspicious that he was a logic target? And Hall was an easy target, because he atacked todays Referee? Hmmmh, I don't get it, I still think that Karl was a much easier target than Hall. And now that we know that Karl was not killer, it makes even more sense that a Cobra used the opportunity to get rid of an easy target. Am I the only one who has been a bit surprised by Miyagi's explanation?[/quote] Kreese is not happy with Espinoza here, for the lynch, and doesn't like Miyagi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kreese's top suspects would, IMO, be Miyagi, Daniel, Jonny and Bobby, although the Bobby suspicion was fairly early on and not repeated. Second tier seems to be Karl, Vidal and me. I think I misread it earlier when I said that these were his top suspects, I thinkl he meant that those players were the groups top suspects. :unsure: Kreese also suggests that these players reveal, I don't think it a good idea unless they're in the refs top suspects at the end of the day. Seems to like Hall and Dutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm not too sure what WiFoMing night kills helps to be honest. Sure, Kreese may have said something that caused the killers to panic and kill him, but he may equally have said something that caused the killers to frame someone. The main reason killers would probably kill someone is that noone suspected him making him PI. Anything else is probably WiFoM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hmmm. It wasn't my intention to curtail discussion completely. So, it seems Karl wasn't DLR, or at least if he was he didn't opt to use the crane kick. Anyone around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I am here. Just catching up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Kreese makes a logical kill as he wasn't really connected to anyone that I can see. Even his suspects he was so so on. (I mean he wasn't really pushing them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Maybe killers thought he was hiding something. Or it is completely random kill just to confuse us, which seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Well. yes, it is in the nature of night kills that there is massive potential to second guess and seconod guess second guesses and so on and so forth. Which is why analysing night kills isn't often of much help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 You want to shut us down again? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm surprised to say the least about my ref status - I didn't think I made myself that likeable or trustworthy. Go ahead and vote so I can gauge your feelings, I'll try to be fair and listen to majority, yada, yada. I am kind of surprised about Kreese - true, he had few connections, but not many people had good things to say about him (as in, I think Kreese looks innocent) whereas there were a few others on quite a few people's lists - Miyagi, Bobby, myself, maybe a few more, I'd have to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Vidal' post='1722099' date='Mar 17 2009, 14.01']You want to shut us down again? :P[/quote] Just trying to divert the discussion to somewhere useful, but hopefully now that Dutch is here it will actually happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Vidal' post='1721998' date='Mar 17 2009, 04.30']I am not sure what happened there. Either I completely brain-farted and missed your post, or it originally said something different, as it was edited. I thought I remembered it only saying that you were suspicious of Hal, but not why. So yeah, this is probably rope I am going to be hanged on, but fwiw, it was honest mistake. Also, I find it bit strange that you build a case based on this hours later instead of just saying: look above, moron, when it actually happened.[/quote] The post was edited, but nothing was changed substantially (probably spelling or grammar) so it was a brain fart on your part :P I went after it hours later because at the time I was focused on reactions and questioning people. At the time I was frustrated with you and trying to be patient, but on further re-reads it struck me as suspicious rather than just unfocused. I am [i]almost[/i] satisfied with your explanation, but I don't like the part where you imply that I edited my post's content. It implies dishonesty on my part, thus casting a small amount of doubt on me. My eyes are still on you for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Clegane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Well, short of nightkill we have few new material to discuss. I suspected Ali for a while, but she gave decent explanation why she have chosen Johnny over Karl. Johnny himself looked bad yesterday, but now he started participating and I am content with him. I's suggest pressuring Robertson. I agree his responce to my post was overdefensive (I missed this at the time, but now it's rather evident), he is way too quiet and we almost ignored him yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Reading Robertson earlier, I did get that same sense of overdefensiveness as he seemed to flare up with barely any provocation, but his other posts, few as they were, didn't seem to have the same problem. I think the main thing I remember him for is defending Espinoza, which isn't a problem in my mind. I don't mind Ali's post facto clarification, it's understandable, although I'm not sure as to the value of the in-depth analysis of Kreese post mortem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Gah - after another re-read (and I should stress these are selective, not comprehensive) I have to re-think a little about Miyagi. I was feeling pretty good about him based on the fact that he was the first one to call out Karl for wishy-washy band-wagoning, but in fact it was Bobby who made the first comment in that direction and Miyagi picked up on it. So my initial reaction to Miyagi is more correct - he was reiterating easy targets in a very reasonable voice (Karl, me) I know we disagree on my reasons for calling out Hall and he is very persuasive, but I still think my reasons were valid. This makes me feel less good about Miyagi, and then I have to question whether or not him coming after me is a defense of Hall - who, other than calling out Espinoza has talked a lot but not added much. He himself has said that he hasn't put forth any suspects other than Karl and me and that was in agreement with Miyagi (with whom he fell in line in quick order). Of course this is a rather obvious connection if true which makes me question it ... GAH! I would like Espinoza to put forth a list of suspects. He got to skate yesterday and didn't really put much thought into it and just went off of other people's top suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Ali Mills' post='1721991' date='Mar 17 2009, 04.10']I should have spelled out that the main difference I saw between Jonny and Karl was contribution, or lack thereof. Jonny hadn't posted anything substantive except the posts I quoted. Karl had.[/quote] Actually I found just the opposite. Karl was the one who didn't appear to have anything substantive to say which is why I sort of favoured him for the lynch. [quote name='Vidal' post='1721998' date='Mar 17 2009, 04.30']Mainly for the delicious Freudian slip :)[/quote] OK, I missed it. Where's the slip? I thought I might have said 'cock' instead of 'clock' but that's not it :P [quote name='Dutch' post='1722102' date='Mar 17 2009, 08.04']I'm surprised to say the least about my ref status - I didn't think I made myself that likeable or trustworthy. Go ahead and vote so I can gauge your feelings, I'll try to be fair and listen to majority, yada, yada.[/quote] Well coming from someone whose opinion changed on you, I think you made a better impression in the latter half of day one. Still don't fully trust you however; I'm a little wary of you being king. [quote]I am kind of surprised about Kreese - true, he had few connections, but not many people had good things to say about him (as in, I think Kreese looks innocent) whereas there were a few others on quite a few people's lists - Miyagi, Bobby, myself, maybe a few more, I'd have to check.[/quote] Which is probably in turn why he was the best choice for a night kill. He wasn't a dunce but also not a 'leader' who may have drawn the healer's attention. I realize there's reason to go back and review the recently departed's posts but I'm always a little wary of those who add their own interpretations to them like Ali did. My suspicion of her hasn't lessened any and she's currently one of my top suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I am not feeling comfortable with Ali. I don't like the way she explained and almost back peddled. While discussing the recent dead is fine, there isn't a need for a full recap and it makes her look like she was trying to be helpful without her actually adding much to the discussion. Still don't like Vidal. Hopefully he will post more substance today. Same goes for johnny. Not a lot has changed so far. I do feel a lot better about Hall and some of my initial reactions were likely OMGUS (just a little perhaps :P ) I am ok with Dutch and so-so on bobby. Everyone else falls in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.