House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Since we did, but didn't discuss Espinosa's ref status yesterday, how is everyone still feeling abut that? As I said, I had the same feeling as Hall - that it was a grab and he wanted it. I don't have a problem with that as I feel an innocent should want it just as much as an evil, but the whole 'who, me?' routine tipped it into quasi-suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Dutch' post='1722183' date='Mar 17 2009, 10.14']Since we did, but didn't discuss Espinosa's ref status yesterday, how is everyone still feeling abut that? As I said, I had the same feeling as Hall - that it was a grab and he wanted it. I don't have a problem with that as I feel an innocent should want it just as much as an evil, but the whole 'who, me?' routine tipped it into quasi-suspicious.[/quote] We can't just let that one slide? :D I really was surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 So you're [i]still[/i] not liking Vidal? Unless I missed something, the last time you mentioned him you were leaning innocent. [quote name='Espinoza' post='1721554' date='Mar 16 2009, 18.55']I am not committed to the idea of lynching Vilad. Posts make me want to slap him a little, but gut says he might be innocent.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Dutch, you may note that I put the possibility that you tampered with your post second. I don't seriously accuse you of changing the content, because if you had, other people would have noticed. Bloody paint fumes here are doing my head in. Time to reread Espinoza...we never let anything slip that you can hang somebody on ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 But you [i]did[/i] put it in. We never let anything slip ... well, you know the rest. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I felt it was a grab - earlier I had thought that it would only be done by a killer, but I've since revised my view, and feel that it is the kind of thing that any player should try and do, given the opportunity. In light of this, the continual denial of a grab seems odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Clegane Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Dutch' post='1722183' date='Mar 17 2009, 16.14']Since we did, but didn't discuss Espinosa's ref status yesterday, how is everyone still feeling abut that?[/quote]I don't see a problem here. There is an option of doubling board PMs to e-mail which allows everybody to know very fast that the game is about to start. Two minutes time of reaction is ok for me. And, sincerely, I also completely forgot it is a kingmaker game. I am more worried about Miyagi. Nothing concrete against him, but I truely believe nobody should stay under the radars in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Johnny Lawrence' post='1722034' date='Mar 17 2009, 10.45']I'm not too sure what WiFoMing night kills helps to be honest. Sure, Kreese may have said something that caused the killers to panic and kill him, but he may equally have said something that caused the killers to frame someone. The main reason killers would probably kill someone is that noone suspected him making him PI. Anything else is probably WiFoM.[/quote] I'm not WIFOM'ing the kill. I think that people Kreese suspected are more likely to be evil than those he defended. That isn't WIFOM, it's fairly normal reasoning IMO. Suggesting that the killers might have killed him for attacking one of them, but it might also be a frame, now [i]that's[/i] WIFOM. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote]But you did put it in. We never let anything slip ... well, you know the rest.[/quote] I did put it in. And you did edit your post. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Dutch' post='1722194' date='Mar 17 2009, 10.26']So you're [i]still[/i] not liking Vidal? Unless I missed something, the last time you mentioned him you were leaning innocent.[/quote] I don't like his posts. my next sentense was: [quote]Hopefully he will post more substance today[/quote] Gut feelings are nice, and I will use them on day one if I have nothing else, but once the game gets rolling, it comes down to posts a lot more than guts. Yes, gut feelings are towards innocent, but they can be wrong and unless I see more from him, logic will over ride gut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Dutch' post='1722183' date='Mar 17 2009, 09.14']Since we did, but didn't discuss Espinosa's ref status yesterday, how is everyone still feeling abut that? As I said, I had the same feeling as Hall - that it was a grab and he wanted it. I don't have a problem with that as I feel an innocent should want it just as much as an evil, but the whole 'who, me?' routine tipped it into quasi-suspicious.[/quote] It's definitely Espinosa's early day one behaviour that makes me suspect him -- much more than his initial grab. I'm also a little worried that his recent turnaround on me is an attempt to ease my suspicions of him or him conceding defeat in a losing argument to avoid controversy. I'm usually paranoid like this however and you (Dutch) did a similar thing to me yesterday. In short, I'm more suspicious of him right now than I am Vidal -- for reasons of no real substance -- but he's also not my top suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Ali Mills' post='1722209' date='Mar 17 2009, 09.32']I'm not WIFOM'ing the kill. I think that people Kreese suspected are more likely to be evil than those he defended. That isn't WIFOM, it's fairly normal reasoning IMO.[/quote] Why? I'm more convinced that the FM would go after someone with no direct connections to them than someone who lists them as a prime suspect. That's why I'm a little wary of people trying to steer us towards looking at Kreese's suspects. That said, I'm a little concerned by all the echoing I'm hearing on the thread right now (yeah, I'm guilty of it myself). There's been quite a few people who've said 'Espinoza's move looks like a grab' and quite a few who've said 'Ali's using Kreeses' suspect list misleadingly.' I'd actually feel better about someone whose detracting from these beliefs right now than I do about those who've shared my thoughts on the matter. I'd also like to hear more from Miyagi. I agreed with a lot of what they had to say day one, but that's by no means a free pass either. There lack of contribution lately is noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Espinoza, my point is that the last time you mentioned Vidal before today you said what I quoted - 'want to slap him, but gut is leaning innocent'. You didn't say one word about him again until I asked for your suspects today and you say 'Still not liking him, want to see more substance' I just found it odd that you went from being 'annoyed but leaning innocent' to 'top suspect' and you worded it in a way that makes it seem like you've had bad feelings about Vidal all along, rather than just annoyance. It seems like you're either not putting any thought into it, you want to get on my good side since I suspect Vidal, or you are evil and aren't keeping track of your suspects and reasoning very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Ali Mills' post='1722209' date='Mar 17 2009, 15.32']I'm not WIFOM'ing the kill. I think that people Kreese suspected are more likely to be evil than those he defended. That isn't WIFOM, it's fairly normal reasoning IMO. Suggesting that the killers might have killed him for attacking one of them, but it might also be a frame, now [i]that's[/i] WIFOM. ;)[/quote] I'm not seeing a massive difference here. Your fairly normal reasoning is only better than a reread of a random person because we have a CF. It doesn't however imply that he was correct about anything, as being CI is by no means the same as being confirmed right, or even probable right. Yes your second point is WIFOM but there's not that many degrees between what you did and that. I didn't like that long post because it added very little to the game. Someone had posted before you pointing out Kreese's main suspects, but your going in to greater details suggests to me an agenda. It could just be trying to seem like you are contributing more, but it could be trying to draw attention to something that Kreese said but hasn't been picked up on enough for your liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Dutch' post='1722240' date='Mar 17 2009, 10.51']Espinoza, my point is that the last time you mentioned Vidal before today you said what I quoted - 'want to slap him, but gut is leaning innocent'. You didn't say one word about him again until I asked for your suspects today and you say 'Still not liking him, want to see more substance' I just found it odd that you went from being 'annoyed but leaning innocent' to 'top suspect' and you worded it in a way that makes it seem like you've had bad feelings about Vidal all along, rather than just annoyance. It seems like you're either not putting any thought into it, you want to get on my good side since I suspect Vidal, or you are evil and aren't keeping track of your suspects and reasoning very well.[/quote] Not putting a lot of thought into my wording. sorry, boss is roaming around. It's almost lunch time and I usually make longer, better thought out posts then. (or, I think I do anyway) Also, what you feel on day one and day two are not always the same. I am willing to give a pass on gut feelings on day one. I will not most other times after that. And I don't like being annoyed, so in my mind not liking does = annoyed. And Ali is top suspect...he is afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 A lot of people are looking at Ali, but I'm not feeling it yet. She hasn't done anything that makes me think her innocent, but as of now I don't see anything specifically scummy. I'm not saying don't discuss it, just throwing my thoughts out there. To anyone with doubts about Miyagi, would anyone have strong enough feelings to put him near the top of their list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Johnny Lawrence' post='1722244' date='Mar 17 2009, 14.54']I didn't like that long post because it added very little to the game. Someone had posted before you pointing out Kreese's main suspects, but your going in to greater details suggests to me an agenda. It could just be trying to seem like you are contributing more, but it could be trying to draw attention to something that Kreese said but hasn't been picked up on enough for your liking.[/quote] Bobby's post (above mine): [quote name='Bobby Brown' post='1722018' date='Mar 17 2009, 10.07']I've reread Kreese. His main concerns were me and Miyagi (and Johnny, but Johnny was everybody's concern). More importantly, he wasn't suspected by anybody, which might explain the kill.[/quote] My conclusions: [quote name='Ali Mills' post='1722027' date='Mar 17 2009, 10.36']Kreese's top suspects would, IMO, be Miyagi, Daniel, Jonny and Bobby, although the Bobby suspicion was fairly early on and not repeated. Second tier seems to be Karl, Vidal and me. I think I misread it earlier when I said that these were his top suspects, I thinkl he meant that those players were the groups top suspects. :unsure: Kreese also suggests that these players reveal, I don't think it a good idea unless they're in the refs top suspects at the end of the day. Seems to like Hall and Dutch.[/quote] First, I added Daniel to Kreese's suspect list, above what Bobby posted. Second, I added a couple of players that Kreese seemed to like (although in the case of Hall it was just a small defense near the start of the game). So your objection here is that my reread was more detailed and contained more information than the one above mine (and they were also crossposted, by the way). It's an utterly bizzare objection to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Johnny Lawrence' post='1722244' date='Mar 17 2009, 09.54']I'm not seeing a massive difference here. Your fairly normal reasoning is only better than a reread of a random person because we have a CF. It doesn't however imply that he was correct about anything, as being CI is by no means the same as being confirmed right, or even probable right. Yes your second point is WIFOM but there's not that many degrees between what you did and that. I didn't like that long post because it added very little to the game. Someone had posted before you pointing out Kreese's main suspects, but your going in to greater details suggests to me an agenda. It could just be trying to seem like you are contributing more, but it could be trying to draw attention to something that Kreese said but hasn't been picked up on enough for your liking.[/quote] Despite having a similar train of thought initially, Ali's post where she interprets Kreese's suspect list screams less of 'agenda' than your posts trying to nail her on it. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mirror Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 OK, I'm going to be off shortly, and potentially for some time depending on internet connection availability, but will be back before day end. I thought I'd leave you with my top suspects at the moment, seeing as I didn't do that before I left yesterday: Tier 1: Ali Mills Tier 2: Vidal, Espinosa Tier 3: Robertson Ali - This is part gut, but I just feel too many things aren't adding up properly with her. The omission of reasoning for favouring me on day 1, coupled with the in depth reread on Kreese which I have already commented on make her my top suspect. Vidal - I'm still not getting any real sense of substance from Vidal despite a large number of posts, and this hasn't really changed for day 2, although the posts have dried up a little the content levels haven't really changed. Also the one post which annoys me still is his distancing himself from grabbing the day 1 ref position which came off as fishy to me. Espinoza - my opinion on Espinoza has been bouncing around a bit which isn't good on my behalf, but the reaction to the ref position on day 1 struck me as similarly odd to Vidal's reaction. Robertson - Drawing mainly blanks on him, but the overdefensiveness when talking with Bobby Brown sticks out in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 [quote name='Dutch' post='1722258' date='Mar 17 2009, 11.03']To anyone with doubts about Miyagi, would anyone have strong enough feelings to put him near the top of their list?[/quote] He doesn't posts a lot, but he does contribute when he does. I can't say he stands out much. Doesn't seem aggressive or to stir the pot much. It is why I have him lopped in the middle with the others (Bobby and Robertson) There really isn't enought to go on. I can't place him in other catagory (likely innocent/likely guilty) I'd have no objections to anyone who remains in that catagory by the end of the day to being eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.