I have a small concern

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

My favourite is 'slag'.

Pity GRRM never used it.

[Evil_Weevil]

yep, it's a good'un

quite enjoying the novelty (for me at least) of Bint as a sweary name, very satisfying to shout at people :D

[Sekhmet]

I know you're concerned. I've been listening to the audio books, to refresh my memory of one of my favorite book series. They are nicely read in a more RP English by actor Roy Dotrice. He's marvelous. Although his reading of the female voices is sometimes annoying. I've found this with the other audio novel I listened to, Cromwell's Stonehenge.

It's shaping up to be a great cast! I'm not so ever concerned. I think that both sides of the Atlantic will be pleased. I just hope that HBO picks up the cost for at least one season.

I think that a film/tv script is always different from the book. That's not a bad thing.

[SerIvor]

I don't think these dialect points are a huge issue really. My understanding of a lot of these so called "Americanisms" including "gotten" and surprisingly "fall" as well as many other words or phrases thought to have American origin were actually common in Britain at the time that America was colonised (or colonized) and fell out of favour (or favor!) in Britain. Having these words said in a pseudo medieval context wouldn't be so out of place.

As long as Jon Snow doesn't start calling everyone "Dude" I'll be happy

[fitheach]

I don't think these dialect points are a huge issue really. My understanding of a lot of these so called "Americanisms" including "gotten" and surprisingly "fall" as well as many other words or phrases thought to have American origin were actually common in Britain at the time that America was colonised (or colonized) and fell out of favour (or favor!) in Britain. Having these words said in a pseudo medieval context wouldn't be so out of place.

As long as Jon Snow doesn't start calling everyone "Dude" I'll be happy

Thank you.

I had a conversation recently with an aquaintance who has a masters in Medieval languages (linguistics?) and she agree's with this. She mentioned a theory that medieval english may have sounded a bit like the New York City accent (NYC has a mix of Dutch, Irish, Yiddish and Italian). Somehow this mix is thought to be similar to what Medieval English may have been.

I think this is pretty funny myself, just imagining a bit of a NYC accent with the costuming.

[defter]

Of course you are right, the 'common tongue' of Westeros is indeed American, not English, so based on that it would be odd if I had a problem with the series not being in British English. And, as you say, it's a made up world, so it doesn't really matter.

this kinda bothered me though. even though its "english" it's not supposed to be actually English. like whats up with "magister illyrio"?? Magister doesnt mean anything in englihs, but its an english word that comes from a latin root.... why not just use a made upr word for his title or use an english word that means something in english??

lots of stuff like that, but i guess its just whatev

[HT Reddy]

Thank you.

I had a conversation recently with an aquaintance who has a masters in Medieval languages (linguistics?) and she agree's with this. She mentioned a theory that medieval english may have sounded a bit like the New York City accent (NYC has a mix of Dutch, Irish, Yiddish and Italian). Somehow this mix is thought to be similar to what Mediaeval English may have been.

I think this is pretty funny myself, just imagining a bit of a NYC accent with the costuming.

It's not really that that's the issue for me though. I'm not complaining that American is unrealistic or out of place in the setting - it's a made-up world, so that's irrelevant (though I think it's probably intuitive that modern British English is closer to mediaeval English than American, the truth is that the modern dialects are probably equally distant in use of words and accent). Myonly issue is that it will be odd to hear people who I know are British actors, using American idioms. It's ok, I'll rapidly get over it, but I just do want to make it clear for the hundredth time that my issue is nothing to do with what is appropriate for the setting.

[fitheach]

It's not really that that's the issue for me though. I'm not complaining that American is unrealistic or out of place in the setting - it's a made-up world, so that's irrelevant (though I think it's probably intuitive that modern British English is closer to mediaeval English than American, the truth is that the modern dialects are probably equally distant in use of words and accent). Myonly issue is that it will be odd to hear people who I know are British actors, using American idioms. It's ok, I'll rapidly get over it, but I just do want to make it clear for the hundredth time that my issue is nothing to do with what is appropriate for the setting.

I think it's most likely the British actors will naturally say it the correct way while not really changing the meaning of the script. They'll most likely say got instead of gotten or Autumn instead of Fall (etc..) because it falls from their tongue easier... It will all work out, and I really haven't seen many posting of Brits having a problem with this. From what I've read in this thread most (like you) don't find it too much of an issue...

I don't necessarily subscribe to the thoery that Medieval English sounding similar to the New York accent, an acquaintance who is a specializes in the field mentioned the theory. It's based on what were the direct influences that made up the language of the time, for medieval it would have been celtic, anglo saxon, norman french, etc... This theory speculates that medieval English sounded nothing like the English of today. I thought it was intersting....

Like you said, it's fantasy and maybe in this world the characters have British type accents while using seemingly American idioms- stranger things happen..Like a girl waking into fire and not burning... :dunno:

[trio]

The only time the language in the books jarred for me is when someone uses the word "butt".

I came across it on a re-read a couple of weeks ago and instantly thought of this thread as it seemed such an odd word in that world.

It's not even that it's an American word - it's more that it's a modern word when used to describe backsides. I can't even remember which book it was in now, or which character says it, but it was so jarring. Even the word "ass" would have been fine, but butt? No.

[HT Reddy]

The only time the language in the books jarred for me is when someone uses the word "butt".

I came across it on a re-read a couple of weeks ago and instantly thought of this thread as it seemed such an odd word in that world.

It's not even that it's an American word - it's more that it's a modern word when used to describe backsides. I can't even remember which book it was in now, or which character says it, but it was so jarring. Even the word "ass" would have been fine, but butt? No.

It's interesting because when the word 'ass' is used (I believe Jon says it of Theon right at the start of AGoT) I just assume he means ass as in donkey, but I guess to an American you just read it as arse as in one's rear end. I have no idea what GRRM intended - it works either way, so it's never bothered me, but I guess it's just one of those quirks of the English language :)

[Fate's Bitch]

The only time the language in the books jarred for me is when someone uses the word "butt".

I came across it on a re-read a couple of weeks ago and instantly thought of this thread as it seemed such an odd word in that world.

It's not even that it's an American word - it's more that it's a modern word when used to describe backsides. I can't even remember which book it was in now, or which character says it, but it was so jarring. Even the word "ass" would have been fine, but butt? No.

Oh god, I known exactly which one you're talking about. It's something like "Tyrion walked as if he had a dagger up his butt". It beats out any "Myrish swamps" in the battle of the awkward book lines.

[fitheach]

The only time the language in the books jarred for me is when someone uses the word "butt".

I came across it on a re-read a couple of weeks ago and instantly thought of this thread as it seemed such an odd word in that world.

It's not even that it's an American word - it's more that it's a modern word when used to describe backsides. I can't even remember which book it was in now, or which character says it, but it was so jarring. Even the word "ass" would have been fine, but butt? No.

Funny, I'm re-reading AGoT at the moment and just came across that scene when butt is used. It's when Tyrion is at the wall and having dinner with Lord Commander Mormont, Sir Allister Thorne, Maester Aemon, etc.. Allister Thorne is annoyed with our Imps' quips and is falling right into Tyrions' hands by calling him out to fight. Tyrion proceeds to poke Thorne in the chest with his crab fork causing all the other men in the room to fall over laughing.

The exact line in the book is:

"Sir Allister Thorne walked from the room so stiffly it looked as though he had a dagger up his butt."

Re-reading I agree that it was weird, arse should've been used instead of butt.

[The Iceman of the North]

According to OED, 'butt' as a short form of 'buttocks' have been in use in the English language for more than 500 years.

[HT Reddy]

According to OED, 'butt' as a short form of 'buttocks' have been in use in the English language for more than 500 years.

but actual etymologies are pretty much irrelevant. What matters is how it's percieved by readers, or for the telly series, viewers (not that, for the record I had a problem with using the word butt - i don't think i even noticed tbh)

[AxB]

On the other hand, Samwell Tarly is described as being over Twenty stone, not Two hundred and Eighty pounds.

Getting a bit bloody dark out, innit?

[moirne]

American audiences are used to hearing British dialogue, so if actors change some words around that won't alienate US HBO subscribers. I would imagine that the language is going to be similar to The Tudors and Rome. The only line that bothers me is this one:

"I don’t fight in tournaments

because if I ever have to fight a

man for real, I don’t want him to

know what I can do."

Ok, that is something that Sean Bean has to fix, because I don't want to hear "for real" coming out of Ned Stark's mouth :lol:

[HT Reddy]

American audiences are used to hearing British dialogue, so if actors change some words around that won't alienate US HBO subscribers. I would imagine that the language is going to be similar to The Tudors and Rome. The only line that bothers me is this one:

"I don’t fight in tournaments

because if I ever have to fight a

man for real, I don’t want him to

know what I can do."

Ok, that is something that Sean Bean has to fix, because I don't want to hear "for real" coming out of Ned Stark's mouth :lol:

that's interesting cos I don't think i'd notice that - i don't really think of 'for real' as a particularly American phrase (in certain circumstances I do, but the context of that line isn't one of them

[Sekhmet]

But given that the actors are mostly British, it will seem odd to me if they start speaking in American. It's not a huge issue, but it will be a noticeable one to me and there's a risk of it sounding slightly strange to Brits, I fear.

Believe me, be glad. I love Sean Bean lots. But he doesn't do a great American accent at all. Several others of my favorites, like Ioan Gruffudd, are in the same boat. Now Hugh Laurie and Kevin McKidd are great!

[williamjm]

that's interesting cos I don't think i'd notice that - i don't really think of 'for real' as a particularly American phrase (in certain circumstances I do, but the context of that line isn't one of them

Yes, if he'd said "That Kingslayer, is he, like, for real?" then it would seem very American, but that line doesn't strike me as seeming too Americanised.

[moirne]

"For real" in any context just bothers me. It sounds too modern. That line just does not work at all.