Mafia 72.5 - Down In The Projects

[House Clegane]

If you compare his recent defense post to his other contributions you can see that he is apparently able to say more than just two paragraphs in one post. I think he could have done more than he actually did.

Well, some extremely good player insisted that I post significantly more when guilty.

Moreland, have you nothing to say about Bubbles' reveal?

[House Dondarrion]

And, by the way, why would a martyr believe that there is a regular healer in the game? Can anybody remember a game oh that size where we had both healer and martyr? Can anybody remember any recent game with martyr at all?

Now I am absolutely sure that both Carver and Bubbles are lying liers who lie. But only one of them is guilty, and I have to choose which. Which isn't an easy dilemma.

If they both are innocent and killers are, say, Rawls and Greggs - I give up. I can't win this with half of innocents playing up to opponent's favor.

Well, Donny is a friend of brainfucking games, so wouldn't say it's impossible. The martyr itself is not that powerful, but it's a role that you can reveal which can safe your ass. The latter is something we recently discussed, and mods were told not to use too many roles in their game because of the reveals. Either Donny missed that discussion or someone here is lying.

Fuck! :tantrum:

[House Dondarrion]

I know that more players have become suspicious of Bubbles recently, but did he feel that (long-term) threatened that he thought a reveal might save him?

[House Dondarrion]

My point (which wasn't very clear, I admit) is that on Day 1 you had no problem throwing your vote around. (That and the fact that not just I found the Bubbles votes strange). On Day 2 you withheld it til the very last minute. That's what I had a problem with. I know you're going to explain it away because you were busy combing the thread for someone to suspect, but it still doesn't look good.

There's a big difference between day 1 and 2. I had been busy and I had no clue who to vote for. And the existing cases didn't satisfy me.

Your head was on the block fairly early, not 'so late that time was running out'. I'm not going by votes, but by general distrust on the thread.

That's what I meant. With "being attacked" I didn't only mean the cases, but also the discussion about lynching the SK ornot. Poor wording on my part.

Yes. If you could find something compelling or look useful by doing so, then it wouldn't have been wasted. It's why I felt better about you in the moment.

And I should have done this way earlier if I was evil, don't you think?

What? It's a very good scumtell.

Not when it's your head that the crowd wants to axe. ;)

I disagree. How many times have we have people who are almost axed on Day 1 that come through as trusted players because of their actions? A lot. Since our Day 1 was a mess, Day 2 can apply here as well.

Not sure what you mean with this. I know this fact, yes, but how does this apply to what I did yesterday? :dunno:

[House Targaryen]

Assuming I've got my EST-to-GMT conversions right, then Carver is less than two hours away from a modkill. :tantrum:

It is day 4.

7 players remain: Bubbles, Detective Carver, Detective Greggs, Detective Hauk, Detective McNulty, Detective Moreland, Major Rawls.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

2 votes for Detective Carver (Detective McNulty, Detective Hauk)

1 vote for Detective McNulty (Bubbles)

4 players have not voted: Detective Carver, Detective Greggs, Detective Moreland, Major Rawls.

[House Dondarrion]

ALl right, if every claimant told us the truth, we'd have the followins setup:

Innocents

1 vig

1 BP

1 martyr

7 RI

FM faction

2 FM

SK faction

1 SK

The vig and the BP role combined is a two-sided sword in a three faction game. If Stringer had tried to kill Hauk, we would have been in trouble. It might also be possible that one of the FM is also BP. Their faction looks a bit too weak in this scenario. They should have at least one additional role. Or a symp.

Hmmg, so yes, I think there could be a myrtyr in a game like this. What frightens me, however, is the thought that Daniels was the martyr and the FM learned of that role when they tried to kill Stringer o night 2. But then, would they risk a heal when there was still a chance that we might let the SK use his kill?

[House Dondarrion]

Sorry folks, but that's all from me today. I hope to hear more from Greggs. I'd also like to hear some thoughts by Hauk about all players.

ETA: and from Carver, should he ever return

[House Connington]

Which one is worse, I still have to rethink. Luckily, we have enough space to lynch both (unless there is three FMs, highly unlikely).

Woah, are you seriously suggesting we lynch two people, one after the other, when if both are innocent we lose?

That hit a MAJOR FM alert in my head.

[House Connington]

remove vote

I need to take a long, hard look at McNulty.

[House Clegane]

I know that more players have become suspicious of Bubbles recently, but did he feel that (long-term) threatened that he thought a reveal might save him?

No.

Evidently, choice was between me and Carver.

Bubbles was somewhat suspected, but nobody's top suspect. Only I pushed him, but very slightly. He could easily join me on Carver's lynch, which he strongly supported yesterday. Or join you on my lynch. Both ways he was pretty safe today.

But... yesterday I said I'll push Rawls/Bubbles partnership if Carver would turn up innocent. If Bubbles is guilty and knows Carver is innocent, it would be bad sign for him. So, he could switch to me over Carver and prepare false reveal at the same time.

Now, I hate this, but we are waiting for CF on Carver's modkill. Very unsportsmanlike, but this info will be vital.

[House Clegane]

Woah, are you seriously suggesting we lynch two people, one after the other, when if both are innocent we lose?

If they are both innocent, we deserve to lose.

However, if you see a better plan, I am ready to support it.

You are a leader. My work is to suggest, yours is to lead.

[House Velaryon]

Theoretically, they can be both innocent, but then they are giving a win to killers on golden plate by making worst mess I've ever seen. I can't play against two crazy innocents. Three, if counting Hauk.

I just have to presume that one of Carver and Bubbles is guilty. Otherwise I give up.

This is just ... terrible. You can't evaluate players actions independently? Instead you say everyone is crazy, so I give up.

Well, some extremely good player insisted that I post significantly more when guilty.

This means nothing and I like it as little as I do when Moreland says similar things.

I know that more players have become suspicious of Bubbles recently, but did he feel that (long-term) threatened that he thought a reveal might save him?

I don't think he did. If I recall, the only one really looking at him was McNulty.

What frightens me, however, is the thought that Daniels was the martyr and the FM learned of that role when they tried to kill Stringer o night 2. But then, would they risk a heal when there was still a chance that we might let the SK use his kill?

This is an interesting thought. I don't like that it's coming from you though :P (gives me a bad feeling - like you're supporting Bubbles while at the same time sowing seeds of distrust. Sorry, I can't help but look at your posts with a grain of salt)

But... yesterday I said I'll push Rawls/Bubbles partnership if Carver would turn up innocent.

Refresh my memory, why are Bubbles and I partnered again and why does it hinge on Carver's innocence?

[House Velaryon]

You are a leader. My work is to suggest, yours is to lead.

Bullshit. If you are innocent, you are equally responsible for leading even though you don't have a role-claim to back you up.

[House Connington]

A modkill is a god-damn disaster.

Basically, it means that if Carver is innocent, we are at end game.

At end game unexpectedly, with 9 hours on the clock.

Seeing as a modkill would leave us with 6 players, I'd suggest we go to night if Carver comes back innocent. 5 and 6 are equal in terms of lynches (one :stunned: ) but gives us another day to actually do the frantic endgame re-reads on top of re-reads and stuff.

[House Connington]

If they are both innocent, we deserve to lose.

However, if you see a better plan, I am ready to support it.

You are a leader. My work is to suggest, yours is to lead.

I am a leader, you a mere follower? :bs:

If anything, I've been a back seat player this game. Far from a leader. While I might be inherently more trustworthy, a good case from you is more likely to get votes than a poorly thought out case put forward by me.

Since when do we let the PI's lead? Use them as a touchstone on opinions, sure, but actually lead? Without question?

Also, whatever they are we deserve to lose. We've played an absolutely awful game. A no lynch, a last minute turnaround out of nowhere? Hardly the ideal day 1 and 2. And now probably a modkill?

Doesn't stop me trying to win though.

[House Velaryon]

When/if Carver is mod-killed , we can look at it then, but yeah. It feels like end-game.

McNulty - unless I missed it by not going back far enough (Day 3, before your Bubbles re-read today) then I saw nothing to suggest you were thinking about a Rawls/Bubbles partnership. Please point it out to me.

[House Velaryon]

McNulty, Moreland

Greggs, Carver

Bubbles, Hauk

I'd still like to hear from Bubbles on his thought process last night, but I trust the claim. I see no advantage to claiming it today. It looks like an innocent who knows he screwed up and is looking to others for ideas on how to salvage his role. I buy Hauk's story too. As much as I disagree that they should have revealed when they did (and I really, really do) I believe them.

[Whiskeyjack]

nevermind

[House Targaryen]

Carver has apparently sent someone a text message saying that he won't have access to a computer for the next few hours.

I'm torn, because I can't find a PM asking for an extension anywhere, but I'd rather not ruin the game with a modkill. I wish DJ was here.

If people have any agreements or disagreements with letting Carver live, PM them (don't discuss it in the thread).

[House Dayne]

Damn you Carver! :tantrum:

Sorry all, I really haven't had the time today to do anywhere near as much rereading as I would have liked to. Quick skim and my tiers are:

McNulty/Rawls/Bubbles

Carver/Moreland

Hauk

Rawls in particular I think has slipped under the radar, I'm going to reread him and McNulty once more just to see which one I'd vote for. I'm not sure if I trust any of the reveals but I'm not enough of a regular player to make judgments on balance etc, so I'll try to restrict my cases to things I actually know about.