The Judging Eye VII

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

I agree about Mek, but I also don't like Nin-janjin for similar reasons. It's just a little too Forrest Gump for my tastes.

My vote is for Sin'niroiha, the "king of two mansions" last seen (as far as I know) leading the retreat from the battle in which Cujara-Cinmoi is killed. (Does this battle have a name?) I like to think of him wandering the earth like Caine from Kung-fu after the end of the battle.

I have always liked the theory that Cleric is Su'juroit, the mad sorcerer-King who first learned to use two unutterals - for the simple reason he is the only known sorcerer in the history of Earwa who could possibly kick Kellhus' ass. It is never mentioned he is dead, IIRC, so it remains possible, but I still think Nin'janjin is the most likely candidate, considering the Incariol/Iscariot analogy etc.

[Nerdanel]

I think Mekeritrig quit the Consult without telling the Consult. It's not like betrayal would be out of the character for him. He appears to switch sides quite a bit, especially if you believe he is also Nin'janjin. This all ties to the Incariol/Iscariot connection.

I have this rather complicated theory of what Mekeritrig has been up to. It's basically that he has orchestrated the entire plot. (Yes, I know he is an Erratic. That only makes it all the more impressive.)

I think Su'juroit is the No-God and also Mekeritrig's boss.

[lokisnow]

I know the Consult hasn't always been the most competent evil organization, but it's not like they're total joke villains. Kellhus must have given them quite a shock, and shocks have a tendency to wake people to action.

Moe was a shock to the Consult because he could see the skin spies. That woke them to action, not Kellhus.

[Shryke]

The Consult think of things in terms of deep time. Kellhus even "suggests" with his thoughts during his meeting with Aurang in TTT that the Dunyain bothers the Consult so much because it's perpetually new. They might have done nothing in thirty years, aside from what they've been doing, for the beginnings of the Kellian Empire, because they're slow to react, to think about things in terms of individual years rather than decades or centuries.

You are completely misinterpreting/misremembering this scene.

The Consult ISN'T worried about Kellhus. It's Cnauir arguing at them that they should be. And that's part of what causes them to approach Kellhus later.

Aurang boasts of being ancient, of having long forgotten knowledge and ages to learn more. It's not that they think longer term, it's that they feel, as hoarders of ancient knowledge, that they are smarter and better prepared then Men or Non-Men, who remember nothing. (Ancient lost knowledge is a pretty big thing in fantasy after all dating I believe to the whole dark ages kind of feel)

And Cnauir tells and thinks to himself that it's all bullshit. The Dunyain will consume them and they consume everything else. They are, as he says, perpetually new. Perpetually changing to master circumstances. They are an evolving force that consumes what it finds and turns it to it's own ends. A force of nature almost. He likens them to "lust or hunger".

And that, to get back to your earlier post Triskele, is why the Inchoroi are in the books.

I have a question about the Inchies, and it's very possible that this has come up before, but I'm not remembering it. Why, exactly, does the author include them?

Partially it's because they, unlike sorcerers, are damned merely by existing and this necessitates their goals (in their minds).

But mostly because they represent a sort of counter-point to the Dunyain. They are sort of the same and yet opposites. Cnauir thinks of them "like lust or hunger" which, let's face it, is an almost dead-on description of the Inchoroi.

They are essentially unbridled lust. Lust for stimulation, for things, for sensations, for the material world. And they have no absolutely no limits as to what they will do to continue to be able to sate those lusts.

The Dunyain are without passion, without interest in the material world really. The world is simply a thing to mastered, not a thing to be experienced. They want to come before the material world. The Inchoroi only want to come after it. To revel in it.

The Dunyain are more a process then anything.

[Madness]

I don't know, Shryke. I feel I need more of an interpretation on your part to back down from what I wrote. Also, you are kind of adding more weight to my argument that the Consult isn't really doing much of anything. They vigilantly attempt to have the Three Seas destroy the Cishaurim, thinking their sorcery is responsible for the uncovering of the Skin-Spy. Obviously, not the most well thought out solution. You are right about the scene and the book - they are after Kellhus for information about Moenghus.

Still this is what I'm asking I guess, from Nerdanel, Shryke, or anyone else. What is the Consult doing, aside from nothing? Shitting in their boots and trying to resurrect the No-God? I thought that they'd take the field against the Ordeal but apparently, that never happens according to Pat, the storyline doesn't really have much to do with them. There only scenes in TJE, were the Skin-Spies getting recognized and killed - meaning that the Consult still just seem to be attempting to infiltrate the Kellian Empire to figure out whats going on.

Assumptively, Achamian is some sort of ace in the hole. For who though? I doubt the Consult keeps any observation on Akka anymore. We also don't know for sure that Ironsoul is Kellhus's man, as someone suggested.

Decisions, decisions.

[Shryke]

Who knows what the Consult is up to. We have, suspiciously, gotten no view of any activity from them at all in TJE.

In PoN they are still just sending spies into the Three Seas. The entire Holy War is just their attempt to wipe out the people wiping out their spies and their original intentions don't go beyond that. There is never a hint of the purpose of those spies in the first place, beyond their use in reducing the Mandate to a laughing stock.

Even at the end, they are more concerned with the death of the Cishaurim and Moenghus then with the rise of Kelhuss. They are interested in the Dunyain (thus the ending scene of TWP) but they don't see him as a threat.

Cnauir calls them fools for this.

But ultimately, they never mention what their actual larger plans are or where they intend to go with any of it. There's no hint in PoN of what they actually intend to do this time around and in TJE they are notably completely absent in every way.

We know their motives, roughly, but we have nothing with which to base theories on their plans for achieving that right now. And they may have changed alot after the end of PoN, depending on what happened with Cnauir and how seriously the Consult took his warnings.

[Rhadamanth]

What is the Consult doing?

Trying desperately to awaken the No-God and probably gathering a huge horde of dragons, Sranc, Bashrag and whatever else they can scrounge up to face the Ordeal. There's still a long time before the Ordeal can reach Golgotterath so it stands to reason they'll wait as long as they can before striking in order to isolate the Ordeal from any sort of help from the Three Seas, Napoleon and Hitler in Russia anyone? I'm sure they're also trying to find the limits of Kellhus' powers and any way they can destroy him. We've seen them try to figure out what the Dunyain are and they're probably still searching for Ishual. I'm sure there will be some sort of battles in WLW, especially since Kellhus split his army up at the end of TJE. I wonder if they know anything about Yatwer's plans?

Oh and Nerdanel, I think you should make your custom title Erratic or some derivation thereof. You always have reasons for your theories even if the rest of us can't fathom them. :thumbsup:

[Curethan]

Waking the no-god is described as a 'millenial task'. Kinda like making a really complex cake, it will be ready when its ready. Who knows, there may be some kind of celestial alignment that they're waiting on, but I think it takes at least 1000 years to make a no-god.

My latest entries in guessing the mystery characters:

Cleric: Shaenoera

Mystery schoolman: Inrau (or the really long odds, crackpot one is Seswatha via posessing someone)

The No-god: triple evolved Pikachu (c'mon, the carapace is clearly a sorcerous pokeball)

[Rhadamanth]

I'm just gonna throw this out here, Traveler is Cnaiur. The mystery Schoolman puzzles me, however.

[lokisnow]

Inrau makes sense, any other schoolman Akka would probably blast to smithereens just to protect himself out of fear of Kellhus. No one else would he trust.

I think there were so many sranc in cil aujus because they found it was a safe haven from raiding. Do we have any idea how many sranc have been slaughtered in the last twenty years? I would think they'd need to have killed millions.

In defense of Nerdanel, if you were going to muster an army of sranc and bashrag, cil aujus seems like an excellent place to hide them, relatively near access to the three seas and soulless creatures won't be arsed by a topos that will keep anyone else away or kill them if they are so unlucky, like eyeball in the heart dude.

I suppose Cnaiur and Moenghus could be alive. I hate both theories, and that makes me think they could be right.

it was mentioned a bit ago "what was Mek doing in the Demua mountains." and the answer is that he was doing something in the nonman mansion, which is where he encounters Kell. be curious to know more about that particular mansion. I wonder if it was where Cleric was living and Mek was making yet another attempt to recruit him? or it was where mek lived when he tired of golgotteranth (the sranc are his memories afterall)

[Happy Ent]

I wish Martin would hurry up writing A Dance with Dragons.

ETA: Oh, and feminism, Israel, chainsaws, Jackson’s Lord of the Rings.

And capital ß.

[Kalbear]

Are you feeling unattended to, HE? Sorry if your trolling hasn't gotten the desired effect.

[Happy Ent]

Immediately he realised his mistake.

The mod grinned towards him, his face a mask of contempt.

“The forest is trackless, eh, Happy Ent?”

I have to be careful with this one.

He shook his leonine head, leaves and twigs rustling. The mod already began drifting towards another thread, hovering over the “close thread” button.

I must own this encounter.

“Close this thread because it has overflown its allotted cardinality, but acknowledge the provocation?”

The Ent spread his mighty hands.

“In my world, we call this a dilemma.”

Warm laughter rumbled through the thread. Only the mods did not smile.

“Yet the answer is right there: Twenty score and twenty,” he said. “And a reference to unspeakable. Is not this enough?”

“But this is obscene!” the mod cried. “By subjecting myself to these rules how shall I be a self-moving soul?”

“Because,” the Ent continued, “by acknowledging the Darkness you know it.”

Yet he will blind himself even more to the unseen strings that move him.

The mod had immediately seized upon the hinge of Happy Ent’s argument. But his protest was too late. Without speaking, Ran opened the canister, revealing a button within. He hesitated, his stern face pale. He held the future of the thread in his palms, and he knew it. Gingerly, as though he handled some holy relic, he put his hand into the box.