Mafia Game 74

[House Velaryon]

post 402. His reread of Baratheon. I've just been discussing it with him all day, but your reading must be selective.

Sorry, I am doing rereads and focusing on day one. This takes a lot of time.

[House Yronwood]

One other thing I would like to point out:

At the time of Stokeworth's "confession" he only had 3 votes. Martell had 3 votes and some suspicisions as well.

Look at the vote count now. Martell only has one vote. He clearly seems to have benefitted from the chaos Stokeworth caused.

Still, I don't think 3 votes is enough for anyone to freak over, so this whole distration worries me that we are missing something.

I believe 100% that we need to lynch Stokeworth.

Anyone have any reason we should NOT do so?

edit: typo

Reyne, I'm currently rereading you and I would like you to explain what exactly were your thoughts here.

I have to go now, come back in a few hours.

[House Velaryon]

Crakehall came into the came ready to play. He made one RP post and then got right down to business. He has no problem stating his opinions and doesn’t have a problem telling people they are wrong. When asked if he had any theories of his own his rely was:

No theories so far, just general suspicions. Right now I am looking at Stokeworth, Martell and Tyrell. Something about Tyrell is not sitting right with me but I haven't pinpointed it. Connington is kind of up there too.

He has some gut feelings on Tyrell, but doesn’t elaborate on them or provide any clue as to what they are, then votes Stokeworth.

After the Stokeworth Gambit, he removes his vote to make sure the day does not end too soon. There are also a few slightly snaky comments thrown in there (not mean, just the kind of things said with a raised eyebrow). During this, you can see his building suspicions Connie. (all of this are directed at Connie):

You're so very concerned, even if you do frame it in a joking manner. Consider this a part of the reason I suspect you.

Did you give your thoughts on the banter earlier that I missed, or are you just fishing?

Really? You're ready to throw him out if it's just a temper tantrum? I agree, if it is, it's in poor taste but you're writing this off like it's a done deal and then you want to ignore what he's said so far?

Obviously - you were telling us exactly why you should be voted for early in the day. I don't like you constantly poking this. If/when I find something (like above), I will post it. I won't do it for your entertainment.

I really hadn’t noticed how much Crakehall devoted to Connie. After the Stokeworth reveal, he finally had something solid to use to vote Connie and does so. (and it’s not that long after his previous comments.

He stays active, questioning people, looking for suspects, and he stays pretty objective, not taking things for granted or becoming tunnel visioned. I have to say, if Crakehall is an FM, he’s a damn fine one. As of this point in the game, I am not seeing any type of scummy tells, just an objective and open minded person.

[House Yronwood]

I need to see the lynch CF and the night results, then I will be able to move on. Sorry, but it is hard for me to judge things in a vaccuum. I know I will not let go of this, and it does blind me, but that is my personality. Take care of one thing, see the results, then made decisions.

If I had to make a list of everyone suspicious, it would be the majority of the players.

And another one: who would you have excluded from the list of suspicious players?

[House Velaryon]

Reyne, I'm currently rereading you and I would like you to explain what exactly were your thoughts here.

I have to go now, come back in a few hours.

I was looking to see if anyone benefitted from the stunt Stokeworth had pulled. When it started both he and Martell each had 3 votes, when it ended, Martell only had one vote and that was you and it was plain you would change your vote to either Connie or Stokeworth.

Martell had obviously benefitted from the chaos. I thought it was possible Stokeworth was a symp and staged this to save his Master.

Looking today at Martell, he wasn't in any real danger, so that idea of mine was a bust.

[Magic Mirror]

Just a fly-by, but I will say that I sympathise with Swyft rather than Vyrwel. Not that I agree that Baratheon is being coached, but I think Swyft's thought processes are more innocentish than Vyrwel's. I think an FM seeking to attack Bara would use something more obvious than use of the word wishy-washy to indicate coaching. On the other hand, attacking someone for going after a noob is likely to be a good FM tactic, because it's eminently defensible. I'll need to reread Vyrwel, but I think Swyft comes out well of the last couple of pages.

Bracken was the fellow who was quite amusing and longwinded yesterday (though it has to be said, he did continue RP joking for a while after the serious phase transition). That is about all I remember of him, but i think if he's FM, he's quite a gutsy one to have put himself out there so much on day one.

[House Velaryon]

And another one: who would you have excluded from the list of suspicious players?

Crakehall and Swift are two that come to mind. I didn't want to point anything out though. The "making a target" of people by saying how innocent they looked had already been discussed.

Today, we're putting up rereads, but I think enough will go up to not paint anyone with a target.

[House Ashford]

Martell: I'd like to know what you think of me. Yes, this might sound self-absorbed, but I have a reason for asking this.

Well, I am still worried by yours U-turn on Stokey, regardless of your explanation, but I have nothing more to incriminate you. You are in my middle tier, I suppose.

I spent last four hours chatting with my RL friends, modding a lovely AD&D game and drinking a bad beer in quantities. Now I am highly drunken, I'll try to follow the thread, but don't expect any great enlightements from this location.

[House Velaryon]

Baratheon: that was easy, 8 posts only.

Arrives very late, long after start of serious phase, still votes Tyrell for RP reason.

After Stokeworth's confession, WIFOMs and immedeately leaves.

Suspects Reyne of defending Connington.

Wishy-washy about Stokeworth and Connington.

Names Stokeworth and Reyne as top suspects.

Votes Stokeworth.

Defences himself against Greyjoy.

Summary: typical newbie play, typical newbie mistakes. Nothing suspicious.

I definitely won't want him in endgame, so we need to lynch him eventually (remember, being newbie doesn't exclude being guilty), but not in next 1-2 days.

ah, I see what you mean Greyjoy.

I agree with most of what he says, and can certainly understand what he meant by leaving the final decision up to an inexperienced person.

I don't agree we need to lynch him for being new, but I can see lynching him for not being helpful (if we had not other viable options)

[House Connington]

Just a fly-by, but I will say that I sympathise with Swyft rather than Vyrwel.

Not the greatest choice of word there...

*goes to reread Wythers*

[Magic Mirror]

meh on your reread you'll find I've used the word sympathise a few times.

[House Thorne]

I well remembered Bracken as being the jovial chap, the problem is that I didn't remember him for anything else.

As far as I can tell, he didn't have a strong opinion on anyone. He had suspicions, and backed them with votes, but it felt superficial. I'm still not seeing what was so suspicious about Tyrell that he kept his vote there for so long. He also suspected Stokeworth and eventually voted, but he never gave reasons for why Tyrell was more suspicious than Stokeworth.

I also didn't like his recap of Tyrell today. Detailed recaps of the deceased always set off my spidey sense. I mean, yeah, people are going to comment on it and probably do their own rereads, but setting it out for all to see how useful you are is slightly scummy. I know Reyne did it too, but it looks like it's part of a larger project.

It also pinged me a bit when he included a quote from Tyrell and his comment was along the lines of 'he suspected me, so I'm including it for completeness' or something. It's like pointing a sign to himself and saying 'Look, I'm not trying to spin or hide anything.' Just hits me wrong.

[House Ashford]

Well, my head isn't working properly, but I suppose Greyjoy lynch is suggested as alternative to my lynch.

Personally, I didn't suspect Greyjoy.

That is, I almost never suspect players who go after me. They are my blindspot.

My preference is still Connington, but... um...

I'll try to stay online for next 30-60 minutes bere falling into drunking stupor, so if you want my opinion, please ask.

[House Reed]

I'm still waiting for a response from Vyrwel.

I need to reread several players, but I'm very confident in this vote right now. Honestly, I've felt like I've struck gold. No one else has a problem with him? Am I the only one who thought that post was insincere and lazy and felt all, all wrong? (Preview edit: okay, Wythers did.)

I'm meh on the Greyjoy case. Maybe it's flying over my head. It comes down to whether you believe his story for why he waffled between Connington, Stokeworth, and Martell. His thought process is a bit convoluted, but I find cases like these can really go either way.

To those of you voting Greyjoy, I'd really like an answer to this. What do you think his motivation for not voting Connington was, if he's evil? Is it just that he doesn't care who gets lynched? Unless he's Connington's FM partner (and I don't suspect Connington), I don't really see it. He could have got super pro-innocent points by trying to save an innocent player who was going to be lynched anyway and setting up a mob on an easy target.

My second suspect (albeit quite a bit behind Vyrwel) would be Martell, and I'm still making my mind up on Baratheon, but I'm starting to suspect that there's someone in my trusted list who I've given too much of a free pass. There's probably scum in {Bracken, Crakehall, Wythers, Grandison}, but I really don't know who.

Since my vote almost certainly isn't budging today, I should probably do my Tyrell reread now.

Swyft, I know you said you're laying off Baratheon, but I wanted to say how much I hate the 'coached' argument. It think it's scummy and I kind of side with Vyrwel. I don't agree with him that your flip on Stoke is suspicious, but I might be persuaded to see the point that it looks contrived.

You do not know how annoyed I am right now.

Maybe we can have a long discussion about doubting someone in Spoiler Heaven, when the game is over. All I'll say is that I thought something did not fit about Baratheon's posts, and I wouldn't have said anything otherwise. The point of Mafia is looking beneath the surface.

But I don't get it. You agreed with my points on Martell when basically the only concrete thing I had on him was I didn't like how he attacked me ONLY for the flip-flop, and not for my reaction being contrived. Why don't you think the same about Vyrwel, who justified his suspicions on me with even less?

And wait. Crakehall, are you saying that you thought my reaction to the flip was "contrived"? Or just that you could be persuaded to it? I'd like you to clarify exactly what you mean by this.

[House Reed]

Well, I am still worried by yours U-turn on Stokey, regardless of your explanation, but I have nothing more to incriminate you. You are in my middle tier, I suppose.

Thanks, Martell. I was hoping for more in the way of why you found it suspicious, though. It would help me get a better read on you.

I'd still like an answer from Bracken on his thoughts on Connington.

[House Thorne]

I do think your turn around was sincere. You were on my trust list most of yesterday. Something about you is bugging me though, and I wish someone would come up with a concrete point I could latch onto, but right now I have nothing. So I don't really think your reaction was contrived, but I half want to be persuaded that it was.

I get that you're trying to figure out Bara, but I really, really hate the coached argument. I have seen FM use it more than innos, and it is impossible to confirm. It casts shadowy doubt to pain someone in a poor light and I think it's too easy to throw at someone. So yeah, I hate it and don't listen to it when people bring it up. Having said that, I don't think it's a good enough reason for Vyrwel to use it as justification for a vote, but I understand why he doesn't like it.

I'm not sure why you're so sure of Vyrwel right now. Yes, he needs pressure and we shouldn't be letting him slide, but I don't see that you've struck gold.

[House Thorne]

Eh, honestly I'm not feeling the Greyjoy vote anymore. I can buy the explanation that he was torn between head and gut for now.

I'm moving on to Bracken. I feel his posts lack substance and are too superficial. As he so kindly pointed out, a Tyrell death also benefits him, so bonus.

[House Thorne]

I'm starting to suspect that there's someone in my trusted list who I've given too much of a free pass. There's probably scum in {Bracken, Crakehall, Wythers, Grandison}, but I really don't know who.

Where are Reyne and Connington on that list? You wanted to ban all lynches on them yesterday.

[House Velaryon]

Eh, honestly I'm not feeling the Greyjoy vote anymore. I can buy the explanation that he was torn between head and gut for now.

I'm moving on to Bracken. I feel his posts lack substance and are too superficial. As he so kindly pointed out, a Tyrell death also benefits him, so bonus.

I can see your points here. Once the game got serious, he kind of drops off a lot.

Wythers is also one who seemed a bit stronger and a bit more active yesterday, but seems to have slipped into the cracks.

[House Reed]

Damn. I was hoping you'd slip up and forget you'd said my reaction looked genuine before.

But seriously?

I do think your turn around was sincere. You were on my trust list most of yesterday. Something about you is bugging me though, and I wish someone would come up with a concrete point I could latch onto, but right now I have nothing. So I don't really think your reaction was contrived, but I half want to be persuaded that it was.

Something is bugging you about me...so you WANT to be persuaded that my reaction was contrived, even though you don't think it was contrived? No, I'm sorry. You half-want to be persuaded that it was?

I can think of stuff I've done that's kind of suspicious (although I'd rather see what you come up with yourself before I help you out and give you ideas). But your thought process is utterly bizarre, and not at all what I'd associate with an innocent. If you think I'm suspicious, you shouldn't lie in wait for a case to fall from the sky.

Maybe I'm the opposite of Martell and prone to OMGUS (note for Baratheon: it stands for "Oh My God, You Suck!", and means when someone suspects you solely for attacking them :P). But I need to reread you, because I've been getting very mixed vibes from you. Something about your Greyjoy attack felt off.

Fair enough about the coaching argument not being kosher, though.

The case on Vyrwel is not just that he's a run-of-the-mill lurker and needs more pressure his way. It's that when he does vote, he reaches for the low-hanging fruit. I agree with Connington. He doesn't look like an innocent struggling to catch up. Vyrwel just lies in wait for the easiest point to jump on.

Were he innocent, I'd have expected him to say something more like, "Oh, shit, I'm miles behind on this game, but Swyft is bugging me. I need to reread him to see if my vibes are coming for something." Instead, he casts an easy vote so as to look busy. He isn't looking at motivations, and is not playing at all to his potential.

That said, another reason I'm confident in my vote is simply that I haven't see anything worse from another player.

Tyrell also suspected him, so Vyrwel would have known he wasn't his symp.