How do you want Cersei to die?

[WinterBreeze]

Slowly.

Edit: Sweet I started page five.

[Yarl Snow]

She was never intending to be faithful to Robert OR Rhaegar.

Not when she begged Jaime to come to court with her.

A great lords daughter being elevated to queen, and she still can't compromise for the sake of the honor being given.

Actually, I believe it is said that Cercei was quite in love with Rhaegar, perhaps more so than with Jaime. She drew a picture of him and her riding on a dragon, but claimed it was her and Jaime when asked. She said the wrong man came back from the Trident.

Also, I believe she tells Ned that on their wedding night, Robert called her "Lyanna" while making love, which is bound to have hurt her feelings quite a lot.

There is a similarity here with Jaime's story.. wanting to do right, but fate wanted something different, and then just going along with it.

All things aside, though, she is despicable. =P

[Theano]

Not till the very last chapter!

I hate Cersei Lannister--but she's my favorite villain. Greedy, power-mad, she uses people as pawns in her own self-centered game. Dangerous, crazy, malevolent. Perfect.

That being said, I really hope Jaime does her in. Failing that, either Tyrion or Gregor would give her a lovely end.

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Mycella strangles her using Jamie's Golden hand.

[Paternalisme]

I would like her to get ugly (some kind of scar on the face) but survive so she can understand Tyrion, Brienne and co.

[MightilyOats]

She's the least empathic person in the series (aside from maybe Joffrey)

Good luck with that.

[LadySansa]

Hm I should clarify that I meant I like her as a character. I don't think she is a good person. I think she is an evil bitch. I do love her character and I love reading scenes with her in them.

[Kalbear]

About Littlefinger, I personally like the character a lot, one of my favorites. Funny thing, since like Cersei he is very manipulative, has no soul, is (almost?) pathologically self-absorbed, and uses people left and right to achieve his goals. They are quite similar. Hmm. I think the reason I like Littlefinger is because he rose through the ranks through merit (sort of), intelligence, and cunning (definitely).

Whereas Cersei has risen to the top with...basically the same attributes. She didn't have the one most important thing littlefinger did - a cock. She's had to be as smart as anyone in the kingdom, had to outplay enemies that were specifically gunning for her, and do so while maintaining the typical gender roles associated with her society.

Cersei has done nothing that Littlefinger has not. Littlefinger's fucked for a lordship, told people he loves them and then murders them happily. He's poisoning a child slowly so that he can take over a throne. He's happily committed regicide not because of revenge or justice, but because it puts him in a slightly better position while framing someone completely innocent of the deed. He's had a singer brutally tortured to tell his version of a tale.

Actually, now I'm curious - is there a single thing that Cersei has done that Littlefinger hasn't? Torturing innocents? Check. Using sex to get what they want? Check. Murdering people for fun? Check? For a very small gain? Check. Lying to people to get his way? Check. I guess the only thing he hasn't done is incest simply because he didn't have any real siblings, so he instead decided to try and fuck his adopted siblings (in Cat and Lysa).

Just amazing.

[noobilly]

Whereas Cersei has risen to the top with...basically the same attributes. She didn't have the one most important thing littlefinger did - a cock. She's had to be as smart as anyone in the kingdom, had to outplay enemies that were specifically gunning for her, and do so while maintaining the typical gender roles associated with her society.

Cersei has done nothing that Littlefinger has not. Littlefinger's fucked for a lordship, told people he loves them and then murders them happily. He's poisoning a child slowly so that he can take over a throne. He's happily committed regicide not because of revenge or justice, but because it puts him in a slightly better position while framing someone completely innocent of the deed. He's had a singer brutally tortured to tell his version of a tale.

Actually, now I'm curious - is there a single thing that Cersei has done that Littlefinger hasn't? Torturing innocents? Check. Using sex to get what they want? Check. Murdering people for fun? Check? For a very small gain? Check. Lying to people to get his way? Check. I guess the only thing he hasn't done is incest simply because he didn't have any real siblings, so he instead decided to try and fuck his adopted siblings (in Cat and Lysa).

Just amazing.

Well, I don't think Littlefinger has a better character than Cersei, but in terms of ability they are just worlds apart. Littlefinger was born a very minor noble, so he had to climb up by tooth and nail. Cersei was born the daughter to one of the Lords Paramount, and didn't have to exert any effort to get married to Robert at all.

[Kalbear]

Well, I don't think Littlefinger has a better character than Cersei, but in terms of ability they are just worlds apart. Littlefinger was born a very minor noble, so he had to climb up by tooth and nail. Cersei was born the daughter to one of the Lords Paramount, and didn't have to exert any effort to get married to Robert at all.

But she had power before that. And she used what she had to get a lot more than simply a queen's power. How much power do you think queens tended to wield before Cersei?

Especially when her husband is essentially her enemy.

And more importantly, how much power do you think that a Queen is expected to wield? With Littlefinger everyone could see that he was a scheming, smart bastard. But that's fine - being upwardly mobile and making yourself useful is to be lauded. But Cersei's ambitions? Do you think that most people would be okay with Cersei being queen without a husband, or ruling the kingdom alone? Or without Tywin's help?

I do agree that she's not as smart as Littlefinger - or at least more direct. But I don't think that's a reason specifically to hate her more than littlefinger, or recognize all the horrible things she's done in the name of power but completely ignore Littlefinger's damnation.

[Mad Monkey]

Actually, I believe it is said that Cercei was quite in love with Rhaegar, perhaps more so than with Jaime. She drew a picture of him and her riding on a dragon, but claimed it was her and Jaime when asked. She said the wrong man came back from the Trident.

You mean, she had a crush on the idealized image of him she had in her head. I don't really believe that it's possible to love someone you barely know, especially when the little information you have of them is embroidered with elaborate fantasies (dragons? really?) and enhanced by the fact that the man she ended up marrying was probably the worst husband in the entire country. If you're married to Robert, pretty much anyone looks better in comparison.

Also, I believe she tells Ned that on their wedding night, Robert called her "Lyanna" while making love, which is bound to have hurt her feelings quite a lot.

That was terrible. Rhaegar would have probably been more respectful than that, but he was still preoccupied by Lyanna and, perhaps more dramatically, his obsession with prophecy and the fate of the world. I don't see how Cersei with her brittle, histrionic personality -- or even most people, really -- could have handled that.

Do you think that most people would be okay with Cersei being queen without a husband, or ruling the kingdom alone? Or without Tywin's help?

Of course not! Littlefinger might be barely a lord, but he's still a lord. Cersei's sex counted against her even more than her incompetence; Westeros had had many incompetent kings before, so it's not like they were seeing anything brand new. Her drinking, sexual promiscuity, violent temperament, and utter incompetence basically made her Robert 2.0 or Aerys the Third; the only difference between her and Robert was that she liked to make decisions and govern the country.

[Yarl Snow]

You mean, she had a crush on the idealized image of him she had in her head. I don't really believe that it's possible to love someone you barely know, especially when the little information you have of them is embroidered with elaborate fantasies (dragons? really?) and enhanced by the fact that the man she ended up marrying was probably the worst husband in the entire country. If you're married to Robert, pretty much anyone looks better in comparison.

That was terrible. Rhaegar would have probably been more respectful than that, but he was still preoccupied by Lyanna and, perhaps more dramatically, his obsession with prophecy and the fate of the world. I don't see how Cersei with her brittle, histrionic personality -- or even most people, really -- could have handled that.

Yes, well, I was responding to the statement that "Cersei never intended to be faithful to Robert or Rhaegar", which is clearly not quite correct. I believe it is possible that Cersei may have had honorable intentions from the start in that regard, but was disappointed and betrayed, and responded in kind.

[Yarl Snow]

Actually, now I'm curious - is there a single thing that Cersei has done that Littlefinger hasn't? Torturing innocents? Check. Using sex to get what they want? Check. Murdering people for fun? Check? For a very small gain? Check. Lying to people to get his way? Check. I guess the only thing he hasn't done is incest simply because he didn't have any real siblings, so he instead decided to try and fuck his adopted siblings (in Cat and Lysa).

He has never out of spite made anyone kill a beloved and magical direwolf. He has never turned a blind eye to the actions of his cruel and crazy son. He has never asked a person to arrange a hunting accident for an enemy, and when they failed, thrown them in a black cell to feed a crazed necromancer's experiments. I do not believe he has ever been accomplice to using a straight razor to slice off anyone's nipples.

LF is pretty bad, but Cersei has demonstrated she is pretty much as bad as they come.

[Lord of Starfall]

Littlefinger is just as bad as Cersei in what he's willing to do for power. However, he doesn't have her cruel streak. Also unlike Cersei, he might actually be capable of ruling successfully.

[Paternalisme]

Littlefinger is just as bad as Cersei in what he's willing to do for power. However, he doesn't have her cruel streak. Also unlike Cersei, he might actually be capable of ruling successfully.

The same as Tywin, yet i hate Tywin much more than i hate LF.

[JimS600]

Cersei will "repent" become a "Nun" and rise to take over the Faith ..... ultimate power

She is just soooo... HOT :love:

[Kalbear]

He has never out of spite made anyone kill a beloved and magical direwolf. He has never turned a blind eye to the actions of his cruel and crazy son. He has never asked a person to arrange a hunting accident for an enemy, and when they failed, thrown them in a black cell to feed a crazed necromancer's experiments. I do not believe he has ever been accomplice to using a straight razor to slice off anyone's nipples.

Okay, so he didn't have the direwolf killed. Do you think he'd actually care?

He hasn't asked for a hunting accident. No, he's asked for a dueling accident instead. MUCH different.

He hasn't turned a blind eye to his children. Instead, he's decided to poison his adopted son while trying to have sex with the daughter of the woman he supposedly loves while using her for a power struggle. Oh, he's also arranged to poison a completely different person for no reason other than sowing chaos. And he's also had a person who completely helped him murdered after he had completed his work and done so well, just because it was more convenient to do so.

He hasn't sent a person who failed him to be tortured. No, instead he's sent a completely innocent bard to be tortured.

He hasn't stood there watching someone get their nipples sliced off. No, instead he's sat there and watched a person lose their eyes, watched as their fingers were broken and dictated precisely what the person would say.

The main differences between Cersei's actions and LF's are that Cersei's not quite as clever and Cersei actually has children she cares about. Littlefinger has nothing he cares about. In terms of what they're willing to do, what they're willing to sacrifice and how ruthless, cruel and mean they are? They're the same person.

[Robb the Lord]

To clarify: Littlefinger is not necessarily a better character than Cersei. If anything Martin has made him less sympathetic. Some people feel pity for Cersei because her marriage was doomed from the beginning. I personally do not, but YMMV.

The main difference between Littlefinger and Cersei is that he doesn't make things personal. Littlefinger didn't really care about Lysa at all; he got rid of her because she was a nuisance, threatened Sansa, and was an obstacle in his overall plan, whatever that may be. He saw an opportunity and took it. Littlefinger does not go about his life seeking to rid the world of everyone he dislikes; instead his philosophy is more along the lines of 'I need to do ______ in order to achieve my goals, and if __________ decides to get in the way, then that's too bad for him/her isn't it?' Also Littlefinger is inherently more likeable (in my view at least) than Cersei because he is not much for pretenses (Lysa being the one exception, but she's a psychotic fool so who cares). Littlefinger is relatively upfront about his sly and deceptive nature whereas Cersei, for example, took it as a personal offense and became outraged when Stannis revealed that her kids were borne by incest, which is ridiculous and hypocritical. Littlefinger is much more like Bronn; he has no soul, will do anything to achieve his goals, and is very open about that ("I warned you not to trust me, you know"). Many people think Bronn is awesome. I think so too and I think Littlefinger is also awesome for the same reason. They are both completely evil, yet they are honest about it. They both are sort of the antithesis of people like Eddard Stark and Davos Seaworth, as dishonorable as the latter two are honorable.

And another thing: I find it interesting how Cersei pictures Rhaegar. It is (by no coincidence) extremely similar to the way Robert pictures Lyanna. She has an unrealistic picture of Rhaegar in her head as the Perfect Guy, and like Robert with Lyanna she has a naive belief that if she had been able to marry Rhaegar every waking moment of her life from that point forward would have been absolutely fantastic and she would consistently be ecstatic. But, like Robert, she may have intended to be faithful to him but that would not have happened due to her nature. It was known that Robert liked to sleep around, and it was not known but we have found out over time (especially in AFFC), that Cersei has never cared for an adult in any loving way whatsoever.

[George Snow]

I hate Joffrey.

Cersei wanted to protect him and let him do whatever he wants.

Littlefinger had him killed.

I vote to like Littlefinger better.

But they both have done nasty evil things, but as others have explained, Cersei makes everything personal, while Littlefinger tries to keep everything impersonal.

GH

[esque]

Jaime decides he has to kill her for some reason or another, so he sets off to do so (meanwhile she's gone completely mad from the Faith's torturing, or at least, madder than she already was). He gets there, and he realizes he can't do it, she's still his sister and he still loves her. What he doesn't know is that Brienne's been following him this whole time, to kill him for Caitlin. She arrives on the scene, and see's Cersei about to kill Jaime, panics, and lunges after Cersei with her sword. But right as she's about to do that, Cersei falls down with a knife in her back. Standing there is Arya.

(That's my ultimate wish fulfillment answer anyway.)