Mafia Game 78 - Tales of the Malazan Book of the Fallen

[House Clegane]

Like you again? I never liked you first. What can I say? You came back and started making sense. Tool seems a little suspicious to me too.

Yes Yedan jumped over Tool. Tool is just there for lack of better options. Why would voting for Tool give anyone fodder? If I wanted to keep my head down I would have left long ago instead of staying and talking you into voting for me. Yedan's cop out stinks, keep it real.

Can you point out exactly when I started making sense? Was it the moment I shifted my vote, and attack, away from you?

And there was clearly pressure being applied on people voting Tool by people who interpreted his posts in a different way. And no, not posting and keeping your head down are different things. You stand accused of making plenty of noise while still trying to keep your head below the firing line.

Oh, and I assumed we all like everyone before the game starts. ;)

[House Westerling]

Have to go, but I should be back before the day is through.

[House Clegane]

Now that I'm re-reading myself, I take this back. Part of my point was, yes, it's another opportunistic vote. I realize that you can't always be the first to place a vote or make a point, it's just that I didn't like your vote on Fiddler, and I don't like this vote on Tool. Part of the Tool vote is that I'm not seeing the problem and you didn't really elaborate - you just jumped.

The reason I don't elaborate is that to me it's clear as day. All I can do is point to what I quoted. I'm having a genuine issue with seeing what "other way" you are reading his post, of seeing how you get good impressions off of it. I mean, on an academical sense I accept you genuinely do, claiming to when you don't would be pointless and suicidal, so there must be something there. It's squarely in my blind spot though.

[House Wythers]

And now I see Kalam raising the same point against Tool.

Since we havew Toc and Trull in this game, could you all call him Onos, not Tool? Might be confusing.

A bit of meta: in prevous game, killers have chosen tactics of very strong distancing from very beginning and almost succceded because of that. So we might expect current killers to choose same tactics.

So I thinks Yedan's attempt to stay on popular suspects only isn't particularly suspicious. Unless one of those suspect is actually guilty, of course. :)

[House Frey]

Gah, sorry for my absence. A combination of procrastination, my slow writing speed, and my Internet hating me. :P I don't know how coherent I am right now, because it's four AM and I can barely keep my eyes open. Everyone's posts are kind of swimming together in my mind.

But initial wishy-washy impressions:

-Still leaning innocent on Trull (I didn't notice anything about role-fishing, though; maybe I should reread). That said, did I miss something, or did he leave his vote on Fiddler AFTER he cautioned everyone against ganging up on the easy target?

-Not to make Toc accuse me of kissing up even more, but I think he also looks very innocent so far. That said, I have questions for him.

-Have a weak innocent read on Anomander. I don't feel as positive about him as most people do. I disliked his entrance (I have my own problems with Silchas, but the way he worded his vote on Silchas felt like nitpicky misrepresentation). I felt better about him when he explained his reasons for his Silchas vote. He makes good points; he just comes across as a bit dispassionate. Still don't want to lynch him today.

-I admit that my liking Fiddler is totally irrational. My initial reaction to the Fiddler mob was that it was really opportunistic. Looking back, I can see why the post of Fiddler's got votes; I was kind of distracted by Kalam and didn't realize how little Fiddler had said in it. But I think the "overdefensive" post that Kalam made a huge deal about actually struck a certain annoyed innocent tone. And his attempts at scumhunting seemed to have effort in them (I actually didn't have a problem with his calling out the lurkers).

-Like I said before, I thought Kalam was scummy, but his last post in response took some of the wind out of my sails. His argumentation is weak (and for the record, town points IS a common expression), but I at least could believe it was an innocent thought process and not a deliberate misrepresentation. I have no success reading erratic players like Kalam, though.

-I want to dismember half the players in this game.

Why are so many people going out of their way to avoid commenting as much as possible on anything at all? It's hard to distinguish between what's scummy and what's just unusual.

Of the Anti-Opinions Brigade, the player whose motivations seem the least scum-driven is Ono. Part of it is meta reasons, and part of it that his insolence seems calculated to get in people's faces. I hate to use the too-scummy-to-be-scum defence, but that's how Ono strikes me--he really doesn't care about how he's perceived. That said...why did you even MENTION that people are jumpy if you apparently thought none of it is suspicious? I also disagree with the vast majority of what Ono is saying.

Got to be honest, Karsa is a blind spot. His entry to the game was fluffy and obnoxious, and I initially had him as a scum read here, but he's grown on me in his recent posts (admittedly, this is just a general impression). Pages keep being added while I type this, so I'll look at him in more detail another day.

Silchas' playstyle drives me crazy, and I'm normally the most wishy-washy player in any game. The main thing in his favour is that I'd thought his initial reaction to pressure looked like a newbie/insecure innocent, because he was steadfastly defending his playstyle even when it drew him heat. But his most recent defences have rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know how to describe it, because it's partly gut. It just feels like he's going on too much about how you shouldn't attack him, because his observations are valid while sidestepping any attempt to give actual suspects. Never mind that I don't think I'd waffled until AFTER he claimed to trust me more than Kalaw (and how is waffling an innocent tell?). I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt in case I'm just reacting to a bizarre playstyle, but I'd be willing to vote him today.

Apsalar is terrible, terrible, terrible. I'd vote him, too, but I have to be honest, it would pretty much be a policy "Lynch the unreadable unhelpful player as early as possible" vote.

------------------------------

Just noticed Anomander's questions to Toc when I previewed this, but funny about that.

Do you find Sandalath suspicious, aside from being an easy target? Do you think Sandalath is more or less likely to be scum than Toc? Do you think he's more or less likely to be scum than me, Fiddler, or Kalam, who were all mentioned in that post?

Because funnily enough, I was also planning to do this.

Sandalath

I get that FM sometimes attack easy targets. But that doesn't mean that players who look obviously scummy are any less likely to be scum.

I'll admit I was tempted to vote Sandy based on his original crap vote on me, but psyched myself out because the argument felt so terrible that I'd though maybe he was a n00b, and because it was partly OMGUS. But...

Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire! :P

At the bottom of post #57, you say "and to repeat myself" and then quote yourself.

It was basically a joke vote and that should be rather obvious. I don't like your response to my jest, so my vote will stay for now

Firstly, why exactly were you joke-voting so late in the game (unfortunately, that could go for several people, but it seems like you haven't acknowledged you're still in the serious phase)? Secondly, the explanation strikes me as somewhat convoluted (if it was a joke vote, it wasn't a very clear one). Thirdly, I hate that you didn't comment on anything you'd missed. It rings alarm bells when people make a retroactive justification for wherever their "joke vote" (which you claim it is) happened to be. And I think you're pulling the "I don't like your response to my jest" reasoning out of your ass.

-----

Toc, do you think OMGUS is a scumtell? For some reason, you bring it up twice in the post in which you vote Sandalath. Also, although I obviously like your vote, in all fairness, I never voted or attacked Sandy beyond that one question. So where is the OMGUS accusation coming from? Also, how was I an easy target at that point? Maybe when Kalaw first attacked me, but then?

Considering the person he's voting (me) is a scum read of yours, shouldn't that affect your judgment?

[House Stokeworth]

Toc, do you think OMGUS is a scumtell? For some reason, you bring it up twice in the post in which you vote Sandalath. Also, although I obviously like your vote, in all fairness, I never voted or attacked Sandy beyond that one question. So where is the OMGUS accusation coming from? Also, how was I an easy target at that point? Maybe when Kalaw first attacked me, but then?

Considering the person he's voting (me) is a scum read of yours, shouldn't that affect your judgment?

I had to go back to see what you were talking about. The OMGUS and easy targets were referring to Fiddler's suspect list and I accidentally put it in twice. I edited it with a strikethrough for clarity. I try to keep my suspicions separate. Just because I find you suspicious doesn't mean that automatically someone voting for you is more innocent in my eyes. I just have to go by who is more suspicious.

(and could you use the avatar name instead of player name?)

eta: and OMGUS is not always scumtell. Probably not often, actually. It's not the strongest argument against Fiddler, I'll grant you, but in this case there are many other points against him we can chose from.

[House Frey]

Whoops, I missed Icarium and Yedan.

Also, since people complained about editing posts after making them, I just realized I misphrased the point I wanted to make about Sandamath.

Firstly, why exactly were you joke-voting so late in the game (unfortunately, that could go for several people, but it seems like you haven't acknowledged you're still in the serious phase)?

Ack, I actually meant to say the opposite: he seemed to be acting like we were in the serious phase in his last post, but was still not weighing in on anything. Ironically, I find that more suspicious than someone like Apsalar (who is at least consistently fluffy). And Toc mentioned this (I hate coming to the thread late, because it feels like I'm just repeating what has already been said), but I somehow don't believe that the most suspicious thing he'd noticed in the thread all that time was my reaction to his "jest" (because WTF, his post sounded HORRIBLE).

[House Wythers]

So, after remembering previous game I started to think which of votes might be possible distncing. Surprizingy, almost all current votes were cast onto or by persons I trust... only excxeption is Anomander Rake's vote on Silchas.

So I've reread Rake, and I wasn't satisfied with what I've seen. Rake is one of our top posters, but his contribution/post number ratio look surprizingly low. He is helpful, he notes some obvious things, but his only content of value is his suspicion and vote on Silchas. Rather weak vote, not likely to turn into a train. So, possible distancing.

For this, Anomander Rake.

Of course, since I suspect him of being partnered with Silchas, I could vote Silchas as well, but there is a lot of time to switch if needful, and I more like it this way.

[House Frey]

(and could you use the avatar name instead of player name?)

...oh.

Actually, that was a typo, not an alt slip. I meant to say Kalam.

[House Clegane]

Since we havew Toc and Trull in this game, could you all call him Onos, not Tool? Might be confusing.

A bit of meta: in prevous game, killers have chosen tactics of very strong distancing from very beginning and almost succceded because of that. So we might expect current killers to choose same tactics.

So I thinks Yedan's attempt to stay on popular suspects only isn't particularly suspicious. Unless one of those suspect is actually guilty, of course. :)

Seeing as you are around (or at least were), any chance we can get more than a tiny morsel of snippets from you? So far your only statement of consequence is "Yedan is only suspicious if his suspects are guilty"?

edit: crossposted with a vote from you, so let me catch up. I'll probably redact this post :-p

[House Wythers]

I'll probably redact this post :-p

No need. :)

[House Clegane]

So, after remembering previous game I started to think which of votes might be possible distncing. Surprizingy, almost all current votes were cast onto or by persons I trust... only excxeption is Anomander Rake's vote on Silchas.

So I've reread Rake, and I wasn't satisfied with what I've seen. Rake is one of our top posters, but his contribution/post number ratio look surprizingly low. He is helpful, he notes some obvious things, but his only content of value is his suspicion and vote on Silchas. Rather weak vote, not likely to turn into a train. So, possible distancing.

For this, Anomander Rake.

Of course, since I suspect him of being partnered with Silchas, I could vote Silchas as well, but there is a lot of time to switch if needful, and I more like it this way.

I'm not really sold on the idea of voting for distancing based on the fact that they are the only voter-voted pairing without someone you trust. it seems a little early to stretch in that direction.

But yeah, earlier post asking for some actual work from you redacted. I'm not sure i agree with your line of attack, but there is just about enough in it for a valid day 1 case I guess. I might have to re-read Rake, as I didn't get the same impression of him that you did.

[House Stokeworth]

I dislike voting based on possible partners/distancing at this point. I will admit that while I like Rake, I am getting some 'Reasonable Reyne' vibes from him. Can't see myself voting that way though.

[House Wythers]

I'm not really sold on the idea of voting for distancing based on the fact that they are the only voter-voted pairing without someone you trust. it seems a little early to stretch in that direction.

I won't vote for this reason only. My impression of Rake being fake-contributing was more important.

Now, leaving for about 4 hours...

[House Thorne]

Just noticed Anomander's questions to Toc when I previewed this, but funny about that.

Do you find Sandalath suspicious, aside from being an easy target? Do you think Sandalath is more or less likely to be scum than Toc? Do you think he's more or less likely to be scum than me, Fiddler, or Kalam, who were all mentioned in that post?

I assume this is to me?

ETA: On second read. No, it probably wasn't. Oh well.

I find Sandalath absent. Hopefully they are about to wake up or finish work and can do something worthwhile. Do I think they are more likely FM than the four other names you mentioned? Yes. Quiet players are more likely to be FM. Noncontributing players are more likely to be FM. Do I think Sandalath is more suspicious than say Dassem? No.

I dislike voting based on possible partners/distancing at this point. I will admit that while I like Rake, I am getting some 'Reasonable Reyne' vibes from him. Can't see myself voting that way though.

You have no idea how unhappy you just made me.

ETA2: Back in about 3-4 hours.

[House Dalt]

The only reaction I have from reading through that thread is that Fiddler needs to be lynched today and Kalam is innocent. Oh and Trull has said some things that makes me want to lynch him simply because he might be detrimental to the innocents down the road.

I'll have to do some individual rereads as reading 180 posts in one go doesn't really work for me.

[House Redfort]

Just to clarify my earlier post about a 20 hour break -- this board clock is totally fucked from my current time. My bad.

If you go to settings, you can fix the time to your local time

I’m kind of unimpressed with Tehol, Yedan, Dassem and to a lesser extent Sandalath and Tool right now. None of you are really saying anything. Do any of you have thoughts you would like to share? Who are your top three suspects?

Top three based on RP? How silly can you be? At the time this was posted, the RP had barely ended. I have never once had a three suspects on day one based on nothing. Sorry if I can't bullshit a made up suspicion.

But to play along: I still don't like Ben. I didn't like his response to me, I don't like the tone of his posts, and he gets really defensive in his post where he votes me for not liking his response to my joke vote.

Just quoting this because it's an example of a lot of nothing from Fiddler and more of him keeping his head down and safe.

So I see Sandalath's vote was a joke that apparently I didn't get either. So a few pages to comment on and this is what we get?

So the easy targets and OMGUS! Noted.

So the easy targets and OMGUS! Noted. Any you think polite invitation to discuss suspects over tea is the way to stir up conversation? Got a hint for you, won't work.

I was really liking Trull until he didn't appreciate Karsa's entrance. Boo! I am liking Rake, Karsa and Onos.

Sandalath Drukorlat because you really should at least try harder.

(would also vote Fiddler, Ben and Kalam, in that order.)

eta: strikeout for clarity.

Oh forgive me great one for not living up to your exacting standards! :bowdown: It was RP, then a bad reaction and then I went to bed, so kiss my ass. I play my way. I don't need to be told one day one I am not trying hard enough. Who died and made you WJ?

Do you find Sandalath suspicious, aside from being an easy target? Do you think Sandalath is more or less likely to be scum than Toc? Do you think he's more or less likely to be scum than me, Fiddler, or Kalam, who were all mentioned in that post?

Because funnily enough, I was also planning to do this.

Sandalath

I get that FM sometimes attack easy targets. But that doesn't mean that players who look obviously scummy are any less likely to be scum.

I'll admit I was tempted to vote Sandy based on his original crap vote on me, but psyched myself out because the argument felt so terrible that I'd though maybe he was a n00b, and because it was partly OMGUS. But...

Firstly, why exactly were you joke-voting so late in the game (unfortunately, that could go for several people, but it seems like you haven't acknowledged you're still in the serious phase)? Secondly, the explanation strikes me as somewhat convoluted (if it was a joke vote, it wasn't a very clear one). Thirdly, I hate that you didn't comment on anything you'd missed. It rings alarm bells when people make a retroactive justification for wherever their "joke vote" (which you claim it is) happened to be. And I think you're pulling the "I don't like your response to my jest" reasoning out of your ass.

It was my 2nd or 3rd post in the game. It was not late when I made it, but later when you saw it. two very different things.

I would appreciate it you would answer the questions you asked about me. Other than forcing me to continue to defend a joke vote AND YOUR OVERREACTION TO IT, you are giving me nothing to respond to.

I need a little time to go over a few things: I did not like one of the K's, but the other was ok (sorry---it it why I need time) I really don't like Toc, but then I hate people who act like him in general. so I need to decide if it is game related or personality related.

There are others I remember nothing about, and those bother me.

[House Pommingham]

Fids,

Just lurking in frustrated silence, hoping to get a better read on things before I have to leave. Like watching a car crash in slow motion. Voted for Kalam way back and I'm still cool with it.

Waiting in frustrated silence sounds FMish to me, admitting thread to be waiting in frustrated silence sounds innocentish to me. Strange right? I'd still lynch you if a train starts leaving the station though.

Icarium,

Onos - because he looks very careless and probably because of squirrles.

The other - because I generally like players who make the game moving. They are almost never guilty.

I don't understand the squirrels reference.

Yedan,

I have no time. And I like more to post during logical part of game. So further I would join you but now I firstly can't and secondly don't want.

Ugh, while I agree with the sentiment that some players do this type of thing whether or not innocent or guilty, it is still super annoying and does not let players go back and get good information in later days. So I'm willing to lynch you on principle. I am also of the opinion that our best shot at an FM today is probably to roll a dice and everyone vote that person. That's about what day 1 posts are worth on day 1.

Rakish,

Further to this, I'm pretty sure both players were trying too hard to get the conversation into business mode and so come across as a little forced. I'm interested in what they have to say now that it's no longer a fight to talk serious.

I agree with this, but think that they'll continue to try to hard. It may not make them evil, but it does make them annoying.

Kalam,

AS to the rest of his posts? The points he make tend to be weak, he tries to suck up to a self-admitted newbie and generally hasn't really added much. Can you get a single coherent position from him from his posts so far beyond "I love you, Newbie!"?

It's true. I love Apsalar more than anyone at this point. :wub:

Fids,

If I seem scummy board the wagon and be done with it. Learn something. If not poke elsewhere for a while, my ribs are sore.

I'm game! But the train on you has no steam at this point and I'd like to see what Troll posts when he comes back first before removing my vote.

Kalam,

Some of our players just roll that way, which ever side they are on. I don't like it as a playstyle, but that's something for discussing in Spoiler Heaven, not mid game. :)

Then save it for Spoiler Heaven and don't raise it to show how much better than others you are at playing the game you are. :rolleyes:

Rakish,

I agree with this. Hence my caveat in my previous post.

:lmao: You agree that firm opinions are need, which is why you caveated your post? That's rich.

Kalam,

I mean, on an academical sense I accept you genuinely do, claiming to when you don't would be pointless and suicidal, so there must be something there. It's squarely in my blind spot though.

Academical is not a word.

Quick Ben,

-I want to dismember half the players in this game.

Me too. :drool:

I'll admit I was tempted to vote Sandy based on his original crap vote on me, but psyched myself out because the argument felt so terrible that I'd though maybe he was a n00b, and because it was partly OMGUS. But...

Ugh, I hate this reasoning. Just because someone votes you does not make them more likely to be evil.

Sandy,

Oh forgive me great one for not living up to your exacting standards! :bowdown: It was RP, then a bad reaction and then I went to bed, so kiss my ass. I play my way. I don't need to be told one day one I am not trying hard enough. Who died and made you WJ?

This made my day. :lol:

[House Redfort]

It was Kalam who I got "ok" vibes from and Karsa who left me feeling flat. I will try and find the posts that I got the feelings from, but it will be a while (rather busy at the moment)

[House Redfort]

Icarium,

I don't understand the squirrels reference.

Sandy,

This made my day. :lol:

:)

"Reasons that could kill a squirrel" once upon a time a person with an avatar of a squirrel gave away someone's actual name (regular alt) and it was a "mod killing" offense. Now whenever anyone is using a reason based on the person behind the alt, but without giving away the alt, it is a "squirrelly" reason. Yes, we are weird :P

btw, squirrels tell me I should remove my vote, but I think I'll hold it a little longer. I still don't like the overreaction and the OMGUS vote (it is fully "oh my god, u suck)