Mafia Game 78 - Tales of the Malazan Book of the Fallen

[House Baratheon]

Yes, you are not overdefensive at all.

You're trying to make my replying within a certain amount of time into some kind of argument in your favor. It's not. In fact, it's the most suspicious thing you've done so far. You're reaching for reasons to vote for me when the only one you have is retaliation. I voted for you after you were kind of a dismissive jerk in your early posts. You voted for me because I voted for you.

If you'd ever actually like to bring anything concrete to the table, please feel free.

[House Baratheon]

Because your responce to him looks... rather, um, whining. And insincere.

I would love if one of you could try to be a little more specific instead of simply throwing pointed words around.

[House Clegane]

Silchas is encouraging us to play in a way that is beneficial to the killers (discouraging case building and seriousness early on, encouraging us to lynch someone for not being useful later on), and has been very defensive. But I still prefer my vote on Onos.

I don't have long right now, as I'm semi busy, but I'd be happy to switch from Onos to Silchas to get the lynch. Fiddler is next on my willing to vote off list. Trull still beats the majority of players, but the others have pulled ahead somewhat.

[House Wythers]

I would love if one of you could try to be a little more specific instead of simply throwing pointed words around.

Well, it's hard to pinpoint anything evidently evil.

You are just sounding wrong, sorry.

[House Pommingham]

Do I hear a lynch train leaving the station? :drool:

Count me in! Silchas

[House Tyrell]

You're trying to make my replying within a certain amount of time into some kind of argument in your favor. It's not. In fact, it's the most suspicious thing you've done so far. You're reaching for reasons to vote for me when the only one you have is retaliation. I voted for you after you were kind of a dismissive jerk in your early posts. You voted for me because I voted for you.

You voted for me because of my not wanting to assist in the early part of Day 1. But I just have read all of your posts.

The same with me. It wouldn't be fair if I didn't vote for you.:)

If you'd ever actually like to bring anything concrete to the table, please feel free.

u2

Edit:

Emmm... Isn't it too early for making a train?

[House Pommingham]

Kal and Rake,

Remember, a lot of his very worst moments were early on. Perhaps before a partner had a chance to coach him. In a situation like that, it'd suddenly make sense for a more experienced partner to try to coach him through interactions with fellow FMs, but let his general game play remain as it is to avoid an obvious "upgrade" in playing ability that can show someone's being coached. Of course, that gets into WIFOMy territory. it's a little too similar to the old "too guilty to be guilty" trope.

I just re-read Fiddler and do not get a n00b vibe from him at all. He definitely acts like he's been around the block and really starts off employing the same strategy as Kal, asking tons of questions of people about exactly what they mean. :rolleyes: Though to be fair, Kal's style is an order of magnitude more annoying, but Fids is jumpier.

Yeddie,

Edit:

Emmm... Isn't it too early for making a train?

Heresy! :ph34r:

[House Clegane]

Do I hear a lynch train leaving the station? :drool:

Count me in! Silchas

Sil,

Polite is overrated. Are you just asking so you can change behavior others find suspicious? That buzzes my FMdar.

,

So that's it? That's your reason for the vote? He was polite, and there's a potential train forming on him, so all aboard? With plenty of time still to go?

Seriously, can I have a second vote just so I can Vote Onos T'oolan again? In fact, i'd really like to do this.

Vote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolanVote Onos T'oolan

[House Tyrell]

So that's it? That's your reason for the vote? He was polite, and there's a potential train forming on him, so all aboard? With plenty of time still to go?

It looks normal for me, because ... Onos didn't write any reasons.:)

If he were FM he would have added some reasons.

Edit:

But yeah, I also want to hear some explonations from Onos.

[House Clegane]

Or perhaps he's just a lazy FM who didn't want to recycle everyone else's reasons but equally didn't want to fabricate new ones? Or an FM partner distancing without wanting to fan the flames too much?

FM aren't inherently harder working, less lazy players than town you know. Not giving any reasons is far more likely to be indicative of not having any in my eyes.

[House Baratheon]

Silchas is encouraging us to play in a way that is beneficial to the killers (discouraging case building and seriousness early on, encouraging us to lynch someone for not being useful later on)

That is absolutely not true. Wow.

By "discouraging case building" do you mean "refused to build a case on someone with two posts two hours into the game?"

And instead of "encouraging us to lynch someone for not being useful later on" do you maybe mean "placed a vote on someone who seemed to purposely avoid contributing in an attempt to get them to contribute?"

It looks normal for me, because ... Onos didn't write any reasons.:)

If he were FM he would have added some reasons.

Ah, so in Yedan's world not contributing on purpose as well as voting for someone without reasons both mean you're innocent. Nice of you to step up to defend Onos's erratic behavior, though.

[House Pommingham]

But yeah, I also want to hear some explonations from Onos.

I'm feeling repetitive at this point. This is an Erikson novel setting not a Bakker novel setting right? ;)

It's day 1. I like day 1 lynches and lynch trains. They make me happy.

Or perhaps he's just a lazy FM who didn't want to recycle everyone else's reasons but equally didn't want to fabricate new ones? Or an FM partner distancing without wanting to fan the flames too much?

Way to cover the spectrum of WIFOM. :lol:

[House Clegane]

Way to cover the spectrum of WIFOM. :lol:

That was kind of my point? Showing that it's WIFOM to say "He didn't give a reason so he's innocent".

not giving a reason for jumping on a train when we're not in a tight situation timewise, however, is inherently scummy though.

[House Yronwood]

My impressions right now:

Anomander Rake. - feel as though they're making an attempt to ask penetrating questions; much less a suspect right now then some.

Apsalar - innocent n00b in over their head read. PI unless I get some indicator they're faking their newness.

Dassem Ultor - Who? Would vote for him just because I can't recall a single post he's made.

Fiddler. - High a post count, which I tend to consider a sign of an innocent. He appeared over defensive early on, but I think it might have something to do with his lack of familiarity with the board (note I don't say inexperience with the game*)I really don't like the idea of lynching him today.

Gruntle - Who cares, he's probably a modkill

Icarium - Still a suspect but there's a few posts of his I like.

Kalam Mekhar. - Another high post count; Probably one of the people I'm least suspicious of, but I think his suspicions are totally off.

Karsa Orlong - I have them listed as a 'PI' from my earlier reread, but I forgot to jot down the exact reason why...; I do like his post-RP activity though.

Onos T'oolan - Dislike his attitude but I've got a 'town' read on him. VVVVVVPI (*hint*hint*wink*wink*)

Quick Ben - Post count is around the range I expect for your typical FM; Suspicious but I wouldn't vote for him today.

Sandalath Drukorlat - Not overly positive read, not overly negative; some of her more recent posts make me feel better about her. I'd still vote for her just because she's an unknown variable.

Silchas Ruin - Digging a hole for himself pretty deep; Usually I champion the underdog, but in this case I tend to agree with the accusers; Would probably be my first choice for lynch.

Tehol Beddict - I don't remember anything they've said; Would lynch for that reason alone. Also can't look at his name without thinking 'Eggs Benedict' :P

Toc the Younger - Looked like they were making a genuine attempt in their questioning earlier today; Probably wouldn't vote for them today without a good case.

Trull Sengar - innocent

Yedan Derryg - Quiet, but he doesn't get overly defensive when people called him on it; Right now I have about as positive impression of him as I can for someone with so few posts.

So tiers:

1 - Silchas, Eggs Benedict, Dassam

2 - Rake, Icarium, Drukorlat, Quick Ben

3 - Toc, Karsa, Fiddler

4 - Apsalar, Kalam

5 - Onos (*hint*hint*wink*wink*)

And yes, I realize all my tier one are quiet (i.e. easy target) players... those are just who I'm most willing to vote for today. I fully expect FM to have slipped into tier 2 and 3.

[House Clegane]

That is absolutely not true. Wow.

By "discouraging case building" do you mean "refused to build a case on someone with two posts two hours into the game?"

And instead of "encouraging us to lynch someone for not being useful later on" do you maybe mean "placed a vote on someone who seemed to purposely avoid contributing in an attempt to get them to contribute?"

Ah, so in Yedan's world not contributing on purpose as well as voting for someone without reasons both mean you're innocent. Nice of you to step up to defend Onos's erratic behavior, though.

Actually, by "discouraging case building" I quite literally meant these two posts:

I didn't really see anything suspicious in Ben's posts, except maybe he was trying to hard. Forcing his posts a little bit to make his presence known, perhaps.

It is a little surprising that we're apparently already into the "serious stuff" part of the game, but only because you're apparently chomping to get at the bit. You appear to be trying to take control of the game very, very early. We're, what, 2.5 hours into a potentially 30-hour long day. Several players still haven't checked in, and of those who have, half of them have as many posts as you do combined. And you're already trying to build a case on someone.

This may just be your personality, and isn't necessarily suspicious, but the speed at which you're trying to move things unsettles me.

Does it have to be 20 hours? Can't we compromise and have 5 or 6 hours of silliness?

And by "encouraging us to lynch someone for not being useful later on" I quite literally meant these two posts:

Yedan's few posts were almost obnoxious in their pointlessness and arrogance. Not a fan. His is the type of attitude that will have a negative effect on the game whether he's FM or inno.

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time: if Yedan is an innocent and doesn't begin to actually contribute, he'll make it easier for the FM to arrange a train on him later in the game when they might need a goat. I will gladly remove my vote from him should he actually being to contribute. If not, I'm fine with cutting dead weight on Day 1.

[House Clegane]

My impressions right now:

Anomander Rake. - feel as though they're making an attempt to ask penetrating questions; much less a suspect right now then some.

Apsalar - innocent n00b in over their head read. PI unless I get some indicator they're faking their newness.

Dassem Ultor - Who? Would vote for him just because I can't recall a single post he's made.

Fiddler. - High a post count, which I tend to consider a sign of an innocent. He appeared over defensive early on, but I think it might have something to do with his lack of familiarity with the board (note I don't say inexperience with the game*)I really don't like the idea of lynching him today.

Gruntle - Who cares, he's probably a modkill

Icarium - Still a suspect but there's a few posts of his I like.

Kalam Mekhar. - Another high post count; Probably one of the people I'm least suspicious of, but I think his suspicions are totally off.

Karsa Orlong - I have them listed as a 'PI' from my earlier reread, but I forgot to jot down the exact reason why...; I do like his post-RP activity though.

Onos T'oolan - Dislike his attitude but I've got a 'town' read on him. VVVVVVPI (*hint*hint*wink*wink*)

Quick Ben - Post count is around the range I expect for your typical FM; Suspicious but I wouldn't vote for him today.

Sandalath Drukorlat - Not overly positive read, not overly negative; some of her more recent posts make me feel better about her. I'd still vote for her just because she's an unknown variable.

Silchas Ruin - Digging a hole for himself pretty deep; Usually I champion the underdog, but in this case I tend to agree with the accusers; Would probably be my first choice for lynch.

Tehol Beddict - I don't remember anything they've said; Would lynch for that reason alone. Also can't look at his name without thinking 'Eggs Benedict' :P

Toc the Younger - Looked like they were making a genuine attempt in their questioning earlier today; Probably wouldn't vote for them today without a good case.

Trull Sengar - innocent

Yedan Derryg - Quiet, but he doesn't get overly defensive when people called him on it; Right now I have about as positive impression of him as I can for someone with so few posts.

So tiers:

1 - Silchas, Eggs Benedict, Dassam

2 - Rake, Icarium, Drukorlat, Quick Ben

3 - Toc, Karsa, Fiddler

4 - Apsalar, Kalam

5 - Onos (*hint*hint*wink*wink*)

And yes, I realize all my tier one are quiet (i.e. easy target) players... those are just who I'm most willing to vote for today. I fully expect FM to have slipped into tier 2 and 3.

Firstly, please stop trying to chat up the undead dude. Seriously, that'd be nasty.

Secondly and more seriously, is using post count as a gauge of innocence that great an idea? There are big posters who always type a lot whatever their role. There are quiet people who never say much whatever they draw. Postcounts in isolation are nulltells. It only really becomes telling if someone has a pattern of going quiet in certain situations. If three of our biggest chatterboxes were the FMs, I wouldn't be surprised to see them as the 3 top posters still. I know this is basically a point against myself, but it just feels like bad reasoning to me.

[House Tyrell]

Ah, so in Yedan's world not contributing on purpose as well as voting for someone without reasons both mean you're innocent. Nice of you to step up to defend Onos's erratic behavior, though.

It's my world. With blackjack and hookers.

I do think so because voting without reasons (even fake reasons) means being suspicious.

Every normal FM doesn't want to be suspicious.

[House Yronwood]

Or perhaps he's just a lazy FM who didn't want to recycle everyone else's reasons but equally didn't want to fabricate new ones? Or an FM partner distancing without wanting to fan the flames too much?

FM aren't inherently harder working, less lazy players than town you know. Not giving any reasons is far more likely to be indicative of not having any in my eyes.

As I said, I think your suspicions are totally off base. At the very least Onos' vote on Ruin is consistent with the lynch anything that moves philosophy he's espoused so far.

And on thinking about it, I don't know why i put you in tier 4 of my list... you're totally still in tier 3.

[House Stokeworth]

Kalam, your intense reaction to Onos is odd to me. I know we've been around this block and the fact that you're already voting him means you're goingto be more sensitive to his posts, but still. It doesn't seem evil to me, just consistent. This seems a repeat of the intense vigor on which you attacked Fiddler the second time for being defensive. It's making me feel worse about you.

I just can’t get past the idea of posting without reading your role. What I really feel is that he wants it on record that he has a role.

I don't see Karsa saying he jumped in without reading his role suspicious or even an indication he wanted it know he had a role. It seems to me he jumped in without opening the message at all so had no idea if he had a role, much less what faction he was on. Some people do this. That's my impression anyway.

For the most part, the rest of his posts are a combination of fluff and asking others questions. He agrees with Anomander Rake about Silchas being wishy-washy (a child of 10 would be wise enough to agree with that)

While I agree there is a lot of fluff and I am not overly impressed with his case on Kalam, he does ask some relevant and pointed questions. Of course, I think in some cases he is trying to hard (Fiddler) but overall I think the questioning is fine. I will agree that he doesn't offer up a lot of info on his own. I guess this adds up to me someone to keep an eye on, but not suspicious enough to vote yet.

I would love if one of you could try to be a little more specific instead of simply throwing pointed words around.

I thought it was pretty clear, actually. What do you want - the specific words that sound more petulant than the others?

I think Sandalath asked me why I got reasonable vibes from Rake. Well, he seems reasonable :). His posts make sense, show thought and he isn't in anyone's face to make his point. Ben said he seemed dispassionate and I think that's right. It adds up to the Reasonable Reyne* profile and it can't help but to make me a touch nervous.

*Reyne was a killer in one game who played in the way I described. No one suspected him. It happened in the next game that Reyne was inhabited by a reasonable, helpful but low-key player ... Reasonable Reyene stuck.

[House Yronwood]

Firstly, please stop trying to chat up the undead dude. Seriously, that'd be nasty.

Secondly and more seriously, is using post count as a gauge of innocence that great an idea? There are big posters who always type a lot whatever their role. There are quiet people who never say much whatever they draw. Postcounts in isolation are nulltells. It only really becomes telling if someone has a pattern of going quiet in certain situations. If three of our biggest chatterboxes were the FMs, I wouldn't be surprised to see them as the 3 top posters still. I know this is basically a point against myself, but it just feels like bad reasoning to me.

This isn't a definitive list or anything; I expect a lot of movement between the tiers as I get a better read on people. It's a list of how I feel about people RIGHT NOW on day one where information is still slim.

I also may have... no, no, I won't go there yet.

I'm also not looking at high post counts as the only indicator of innocence, but I do think your average FM stays middle of the road. It's also something more substantial to say than 'positive vibes', which honestly a lot of my impressions are based on.