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Xray the Enforcer

[ADWD SPOILERS] The Prince of Winterfell

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Thank the Old Gods for these chapter by chapter threads! I also completely missed the Frey and Mance details. I guess I was too busy being worried about Theon (never thought I could feel sorry for him) and Jeyne. Thanks to everyone who is much better at finding the subtleties than I am!

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I totally missed out on Frey pie! It is too disgusting to imagine Manderly eating the Frey Pie, is he that sick??

Almost missed the identity of the singer.

Now I'll keep wondering ig Bran is watching anyone who is near a weirwood tree

I do think Theon was gelded rather than flayed, quite a few suggestions point to that -

1- he lost fingers, toes, and that other thing

2- not wanting to take his clothes off

3- Ramsay repeating that he is not a man

4- and the ending of this chapter "I don't have .................."

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What a wonderful chapter, so well done.

The Frey Pie - how deliciously brutal. Manderly being so colossally titillated at the whole thing; great scene.

I completely missed Mance as the singer though.

And poor, poor Theon... GRRM really does a fantastic job at painting villains. The Boltons are just chilling. I do think that Theon has been gelded too, rather than flayed... that comment from Ramsay 'does it give you an erection?' could be just more of a way of rubbing salt in the wounds. Theon has almost said several times 'I don't have...', so I think it is more than flaying.

And Jeyne - how heartbreaking.

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Interesting, I notice the singer has to be Mance at once. But didn't puzzle out the Frey pie even with the Rat Cook line:)

Anyway, Manderly Rock!

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Oh lord. I've been avoiding this site for fear of spoilers, but I just had to come for the Frey pie. I was on the train while reading this, and let out a huge laugh when Lord Manderly wanted to hear a song for the Rat Cook and I put it all together. :)

Totally missed the significance of the Rat cook and the pies. Awesome revenge...but am I the only one who finds it disturbing that everyone (Lord Manderly included) just engaged in cannibalism?

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Yeah, this seems important. Maybe the Maesters had something to do with starting Robert's Rebellion and the end of the Targs.

I think there should be little doubt at this point that the Maesters were behind the fall of the Targaryens. This little tidbit from Lady Dustin certainly points that out even more, but I think that Marwyn makes it clear in AFFC when he discusses how the "gray sheep" are trying to eliminate magic. I believe that there were many subtle hints prior to that, too, but this certainly seems to be where we are going.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, I believe I recall reading somewhere that there was a maester at Summerhall when Egg died. If that is correct, I believe that is very suspicious...

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I think you all are giving Joff a bit too much credit. Sure Joff didn't flay anyone, but that wasn't by choice. If he had known about the lowest dungeon of the red keep (Vary's said it held unimaginable terror, the likes of which no one could ever imagine (which may very well have been a lie, but I like to think Vary's isn't 100% a lying bastard)) and how horrifying flaying is, he would have made use of both tactics. He was a sick, twisted boy. I can only imagine what he might have done to Sansa had they been married after all.

In regards to the Frey pie, I picked up on it pretty quickly. I was all but certain the Frey's were dead, and I knew Manderly was going to pull something, but when he asked the singer to sing about the Rat Cook I all but lost it. I just started laughing at how sick the notion was. Honestly, I thinking being cooked into a wedding pie was too good for them, they should have ended up like Shea's singer, in a stew in the worst part of White Harbor (though there is some sweet satisfaction to be had by feeding them to their kin).

The Mance part went right over my head, however. Thinking back I should have realized there was something important about the singer and his family who looked nothing alike, but I really thought nothing of it. Why else would GRRM have went out of his way to describe them? It's the same as the Red Wedding, he went out of his way to describe how shitty the musicians were at the wedding, and low and behold half of them weren't even real musicians (plus Cat's insistence on getting guest's rights right away was an obvious sign of what was coming). I suspect Mance and his girls are going to wait for Stannis' army to show up, then open the gates for them.

One thing I can't wait to see is how the Karstark's act. part of me really wants them to be pulling a "have one foot in each camp" sort of thing, but I suspect that's a vain hope. I just hope Stannis doesn't get screwed by their deception, I still like him even if he is a false AAR.

Another thing I want to address is the reactions to the way GRRM has written the Theon/Reeks chapters. I understand that they can be jarring an disgusting at times, but that's the point. GRRM has given us a beautiful example of how to break someone down. Everything in there is to demonstrate how psychologically destroyed Theon is, and the power that Ramsay's torture has had. It does a terrific job at demonstrating a man who has gone past his breaking point and as a result been remade into something completely different. These chapters are horrifying, but that's because they're supposed to be, and it solidifies in my mind how great GRRM is at what he does.

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I think there should be little doubt at this point that the Maesters were behind the fall of the Targaryens. This little tidbit from Lady Dustin certainly points that out even more, but I think that Marwyn makes it clear in AFFC when he discusses how the "gray sheep" are trying to eliminate magic. I believe that there were many subtle hints prior to that, too, but this certainly seems to be where we are going.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, I believe I recall reading somewhere that there was a maester at Summerhall when Egg died. If that is correct, I believe that is very suspicious...

Overall, I agree with this line of thinking. It seems we were primed to think in this direction by Manderly's earlier comment that he can't entirely trust his maester, who started out as a Lannister cousin.

BUT! I'm not with you when it comes to Lady Dustin's grumbling. That sounded to me more like, "only a maester from the south could be to blame for a Stark marriage with a southern house." I took it as general woe-is-us-northerners talk, not a declaration that she actually suspects a full-out conspiracy. Still, I could have had it wrong.

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Overall, I agree with this line of thinking. It seems we were primed to think in this direction by Manderly's earlier comment that he can't entirely trust his maester, who started out as a Lannister cousin.

BUT! I'm not with you when it comes to Lady Dustin's grumbling. That sounded to me more like, "only a maester from the south could be to blame for a Stark marriage with a southern house." I took it as general woe-is-us-northerners talk, not a declaration that she actually suspects a full-out conspiracy. Still, I could have had it wrong.

Well I think her reasoning is the "woe-is-us" talk, but that she doesn't realize the full implications that her accusation has. I'm inclined to agree with those that say this is another sign the Measters were involved. It's just so... so... Shady. Everything just came together so perfectly to destroy the Targaryan's. I definitely think they had a hand in it, to help hasten along the demise of magic. It may be that only Valyrians were capable of bringing on the return of Dragons, and since Targaryan's are really the last line of true Valyrians it would make sense to kill them. Just my two cents, though.

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I TOTALLY agree! Reek's gotten really close with "the girls" and the fact that in this chapter he was entertainiing ideas about killing Ramsay....Might Theon Turncloak do a little redeeming soon?

I really hope this happens and it better be a drawn out and very painful end for Ramsay. He is at the top of my ASOIAF hit list, even above old man Frey (especially now that the Freys are dropping like flies and being baked in pies).

I had my hopes up so many times. I was hoping Theon would do something to save Jeyne. Especially after hearing Bran say his name through the weirwoods. And I was hoping Mance would do something to save Jeyne before the consummation of this sick marriage was started. I knew something horrifying was going to start happening when Ramsay ordered "Reek" to stay behind. :stillsick:

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I wondered if there was something up with that pie and caught Abel being Mance straight off. He was at Robert's feast; I wonder if he'll be able to recognize that it's not Arya there. Maybe he'll be able to save Jeyne though.

Reek's chapters are just so disturbing; I just hope he becomes Theon once again.

It was interesting listening to Lady Dustin. Bolton is pretty much an amoral unfeeling guy, but I really wish he'd pull out some kinslaying and get rid of his son, but I like another poster's comment about his dogs hunting him.

The bit about the maesters was intriguing especially with the little introduction we got in AFfC. I'd like to hear the rest of story concerning the maester pairing the Starks and Tullys together.

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It is a great chapter. While it was obvious that Manderly was responsible for the disappearance of the three, I wasn't aware that the three pork pies were actually Frey Bentos. It's a wondefully sick idea, not just to be serving them up to other Freys, but to be wolfing them down himself, with genuine relish.

Manderly is clearly one of those people who likes others to underestimate him, but you mess with him at your peril.

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This is one of the best written chapters in the entire series IMO. I absolutely loved the description of the weirwood, and I don't think I have ever felt so sorry for any characters as I did for Jeyne in the beginning :crying:. The ending was just so wrong, I actually felt sick for the fist time in this series. I don't think I wanted any characters to escape from their situations as badly as I wanted Theon and Jeyne to.

I am also curious to learn more of the Stark/Tully marriage and the maesters involvement. It could be just bitterness that it was not an alliance with someone from the north, or it could be more.

And I'm not quite sure what to make of Manderly, he is both amazingly badass and a little bit sick at the same time

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Totally missed the significance of the Rat cook and the pies. Awesome revenge...but am I the only one who finds it disturbing that everyone (Lord Manderly included) just engaged in cannibalism?

My sentiments exactly. I guess feasting on the flesh of his enemies is revenge, but it totally creeped me out.

When I read a wagon wheel sized pork pie I immediately thought of the Nightfort and the Rat Cook. My thoughts were confirmed when Manderly was inebriated and requesting the Rat Cook song.

I'm in the Theon got gelded camp.

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I hope someone... someone find... good rhymes for "Fetor"-"Reek" translated to Polish. It'll be very difficult.

Or they will decide don't translate "Reek"... but in previous books this word was translated! Everyone'll see that... that failure in translating and fora will be swell from babbling.

Very bad.

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Wow! I am so glad I found this site. I have been reading too fast and not enough between the lines. Which 3 were in the Frey pie? :Any ideas?

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