[ADwD Spoilers] Winterfell murder mysteries.

[Kingslayer]

Neither Mance or the spearwives ever admit to killing anyone; one says Yellow Dick was a pig, and another gets enraged when Theon accuses them of killing the little Frey asshole. That's it. You might ask, why would they admit the truth? Because they had nothing to lose- they already told Theon of their death-inviting plan to snatch Arya. We're intended to take the comment about being "fucked, rather than feared" as irony... but it's true, up to the point they need to escape.

Matter of fact, why would they endanger their real mission by killing a little kid and/or some scumbag soldiers? They certainly would have had a better chance of escape without the high tension resulting from the murders. Destabilizing the Bolton alliance is great, yeah, but that was never their mission.

"Ghost" Theon was the killer.

[Lord Godric]

Neither Mance or the spearwives ever admit to killing anyone; one says Yellow Dick was a pig, and another gets enraged when Theon accuses them of killing the little Frey asshole. That's it. You might ask, why would they admit the truth? Because they had nothing to lose- they already told Theon of their death-inviting plan to snatch Arya. We're intended to take the comment about being "fucked, rather than feared" as irony... but it's true, up to the point they need to escape.

I guess they do not exactly admit to killing anyone, but it certainly is to be implied.

"Touch me," he said. "Kill me." There was more despair than defiance in his voice. "Go on. Do me, the way you did the others. Yellow Dick and the rest. It was you."

Holly laughed. "How could it be us? We're women. Teats and cunnies. Here to be fucked, not feared."

"Did the Bastard hurt you?" Rowan asked. "Chopped off your fingers, did he? Skinned your widdle toes? Knocked your teeth out? Poor lad." She patted his cheek. "There will be no more o' that, I promise. You prayed, and the gods sent us. You want to die as Theon? We'll give you that. A nice quick death, 'twill hardly hurt at all." She smiled.

That is all I need of a confession. YMMV.

[Ches Rockwell]

I guess they do not exactly admit to killing anyone, but it certainly is to be implied.

That is all I need of a confession. YMMV.

Thats all you need for a confession?? Geesh hope you are not a judge or something...

I am with the others in this, i don't see how these killings helped Mance and his girls out, and seeing how they don't really come out and say that they were the killers, I assume they are not. I am not 100% sold on the Theon split personality theory, but its not a bad one either. But in the end, it could have been any number of other characters...

[Forseti]

The spearwives are certainly good candidates for the murders. The question is, why would they do it? They'd jeopardize their true mission in two ways: first off, they could simply be caught, and secondly, the violent deaths would also be likely to create a heightened state of alertness, making it more difficult to get out of there with 'Arya'.

They might just be stupid, but I doubt it. Mance hand picked them for the mission, and Mance isn't stupid.

And why would they only start murdering after the crypts were opened up? That could be just coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidence in fiction.

[Ches Rockwell]

The spearwives are certainly good candidates for the murders. The question is, why would they do it? They'd jeopardize their true mission in two ways: first off, they could simply be caught, and secondly, the violent deaths would also be likely to create a heightened state of alertness, making it more difficult to get out of there with 'Arya'.

They might just be stupid, but I doubt it. Mance hand picked them for the mission, and Mance isn't stupid.

And why would they only start murdering after the crypts were opened up? That could be just coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidence in fiction.

Right. GRRM obviously wants us to consider several candidates, Mance and Co. being the most obvious. But there are numerous more to consider.. anyways all we can do really right now is speculate...

[Kingslayer]

I think it's also worth mentioning the specifics of Yellow Dick's murder: his dick was sliced off and his teeth were smashed. Sound like someone else we might know? Someone who might hold a grudge against the Bastard's Boys? ;)

[Ches Rockwell]

Just as another suspect who could be the cloaked man Theon encounters in Winterfell, Robett Glover. He was last seen in White Harbour with Manderly, plotting to get back his home and family, I cannot see him sitting there alone in White Harbour. he could have came along with Manderly, incognito of course. He would know Theon on site, and of course despise him for his betrayal, especially since it was a major factor leading up to the Iron Born invading the North in the first place.

[AnotherDeadStark]

I guess they do not exactly admit to killing anyone, but it certainly is to be implied.

That is all I need of a confession. YMMV.

Yeah, that's not much of a confession. I for one would like to see a little more evidence before coming to that conclusion.

Given that, like others have already said, it would be detrimental to their mission to start killing people, I don't think it's Mance and company.

[The Flaming Crow]

I skipped a few posts and came here so i might be repeating something that has already been said but....

I think it was Mance and co who went about murdering. The theory being to divide Rooses troops for the war with Stannis and create enough confusion to sneak Arya (Jeyne) out. But i don't think they killed the boy Frey as one of the spearwives told Theon they hadn't and why lie he already knew why they were there!

So I think the Frey boy was killed by the man in the cloak who spoke to Theon but i don't have a clue who that could be certainly not Maester Luwin in my opinion I can't see him doing something like that.

Probably completely wrong though.

[darrylzero]

Yeah, Theon had "Reek" kill off the ironmen involved in the murders. The only reason he didn't kill Reek himself is that the Bastard wrote down the truth of the incident and hid it somewhere... or, at least, told Theon he did.

I love the idea that Theon/Reek was killing Ramsay's men, just as Ramsay/Reek killed Theon's, and GRRM hints as much ("it all seemed so familiar, like a mummer show he had seen before"). I'm no psychologist, but I think that kind of disassociation could happen to someone in Theon's circumstances. Reek could never fight back- just imagine what Lord Ramsay would do to him!- but a fucking ghost can do anything. Note that the murders begin after Theon sees the Stark tombs without swords and gets the idea of vengeful ghosts in his head!

That's pretty good. You have Theon is creeping up my list as the likely culprit again.

[Tyroshi Sellsword]

Yeah, that's not much of a confession. I for one would like to see a little more evidence before coming to that conclusion.

They basically confess when they sarcastically say, to Theon's accusation, "How could it be us? Teats and cunnies. Here to be fucked, not feared." This is meant to be ironic.

After Little Walder is brought in, one of the spearwives said, after Theon gives her a look asking, did you do it? "This was no work of ours." Strongly implying that the other ones WERE their work. If you can't or won't draw conclusions from this sort of thing, you're not going get a lot of what's going on.

[Kingslayer]

If you can't or won't draw conclusions from this sort of thing, you're not going get a lot of what's going on.

How 'bout you address the crypt situation, or the method of Yellow Dick's death*, or Mance & Co's lack of motive? Or, you can just make another dick-y aside... yeah, that'd probably be easiest.

*You could go further and add that the murders of Ramsay, Jr. Walder and the Bastard's Boy were the only ones to show any real savagery. Almost as if the killer held a grudge against both of them, but the others were done for political purposes.

[AnotherDeadStark]

They basically confess when they sarcastically say, to Theon's accusation, "How could it be us? Teats and cunnies. Here to be fucked, not feared." This is meant to be ironic.

After Little Walder is brought in, one of the spearwives said, after Theon gives her a look asking, did you do it? "This was no work of ours." Strongly implying that the other ones WERE their work. If you can't or won't draw conclusions from this sort of thing, you're not going get a lot of what's going on.

Yes, I get that. I understand why people are suggesting the spearwives were responsible for the other deaths, but it's all based on implications. Without any real evidence other than the above quotes, you can't conclusively say that it was them. There's a big flaw in this theory anyway - it doesn't make sense for them to kill these people. Where is their motive? Some have suggested that creating the tension would make it easier for them to sneak "Arya" out of the castle, but I'd argue that it would make it more difficult because people would be more suspicious and they would probably be paying more attention to everyone's movements. In my opinion these deaths work against their mission and so it decreases the likelihood that they were the killers.

[Tyroshi Sellsword]

How 'bout you address the crypt situation, or the method of Yellow Dick's death*, or Mance & Co's lack of motive? Or, you can just make another dick-y aside... yeah, that'd probably be easiest.

*You could go further and add that the murders of Ramsay, Jr. Walder and the Bastard's Boy were the only ones to show any real savagery. Almost as if the killer held a grudge against both of them, but the others were done for political purposes.

I don't think Mance and the spearwives did ALL the murders-- they clearly didn't do little Walder. I'm not sure why the method of Yellow Dick's death rules out Mance & Co. If Yellow Dick tried to rape one of the spearwives, why wouldn't they off him in that way? Their lack of motive is only if you don't want to see it. They are trying to sow chaos and undermine the current holders of Winterfell, the quicker to get the castle gates opened so they can get out. This is mentioned several times: everyone gets paranoid, they are all living in one room, it's smelly and oppressive and awful. This leads the Boltons to want to attack instead of sit tight inside. This doesn't seem like a lack of motive to me.

[Flea Bottom's Up!]

On the subject of what motive would the Mance and the girls have to commit the killings, they could very well have the same motives that any of the other possible suspects would have (with perhaps the exception of revenge).

Some possible motivations...

- They were engaged in intelligence gathering and needed to take out various individuals as a result.

- The murders were a distraction from what they were really trying to do.

- The spearwives just like to kill men.

- They were preemptively taking out what they saw as threats.

I'm sure that there are more possible motives.

Personally, I like the idea that it was elements of the BWB because like the 'Meereen Knot' I'd expect that we should be seeing a 'Winterfell Knot' here pretty quick. And, Harwin and Ned Dayne are something of a loose thread at this point.

[Ten Towers]

Bran did it.

He warged into someone and did it. That was the hooded figure Theon ran into.

Clearly.

[Auska]

The spearwives are certainly good candidates for the murders. The question is, why would they do it? They'd jeopardize their true mission in two ways: first off, they could simply be caught, and secondly, the violent deaths would also be likely to create a heightened state of alertness, making it more difficult to get out of there with 'Arya'.

This is what I was asking earlier, and no-one's produced a satisfactory (or really any) answer as to why they'd do that, and especially with fairly random victims.

[Tyroshi Sellsword]

This is what I was asking earlier, and no-one's produced a satisfactory (or really any) answer as to why they'd do that, and especially with fairly random victims.

I offered some: to make everyone inside so uncomfortable inside that the decide to take the battle to Stannis, a blunder that should be avoided, but that they are seriously contemplating by the end. Opening the gates would allow Mance & Co a chance to get out.

[AnotherDeadStark]

How would the gates being open allow Mance and the spearwives the chance to leave Winterfell? If they open the gates, it would be to let the army through, they wont just allow anyone to leave the castle. I think they'd notice Mance and the spearwives leaving, and would probably recognize "Arya". Killing these people does not help them.

[Tyroshi Sellsword]

How would the gates being open allow Mance and the spearwives the chance to leave Winterfell? If they open the gates, it would be to let the army through, they wont just allow anyone to leave the castle. I think they'd notice Mance and the spearwives leaving, and would probably recognize "Arya". Killing these people does not help them.

It's a lot easier to leave when people are coming and going than when everyone is sealed in and the door is guarded. If the army is on the move, everyone is on the move, and all they would need to do is get to Stannis.