[ADWD SPOILERS] Where is Maege Mormont?

[StarkBlack21]

Maege has to be with Howland Reed. I think Maege has an important role to play, and when she appears Howland Reed will appear. The Mormonts could be in league with Lady Dustin. There is def a big behind the scenes plot going on that seems to be stealthly coordinated. It only makes sense Howland Reed is someone intertwined with this revenge plot for the Starks.

[Ghost Rider]

The Mormonts definitely know that there are still Starks at large who are not named Sansa. Why else would Lyanna (!) Mormont write her defying letter to Stannis? (You rock, girl!) She denies Stannis the Mormont allegiance because it belongs to "the king in the North and his name is Stark!" Where did the Mormonts get their informations about surviving Starks from?

1) Maege Mormont has reached Greywater Watch and sent information from there, including the contents of Robb's will. That would make Jon a Stark and king in the North.

2) Manderly and Glover shared their information on Bran and Rickon with the Mormonts.

3) The information could be connected to the Direwolf flighing over Riverrun. I don't believe that Robb had impregnated Jeyne Westerling, mostly because it seems pointless storywise. It complicates the story because nobody would have to believe that the baby is really Robb's. That leads me to conclude that there is some other king in the North. The Blackfish would be in the position to share his information.

Still there is this Mormont woman in Stannis' army which is puzzling. Did they change their mind? Judging from Lyanna's letter they seem to be Stark loyalists to boot. It's possible that they followed Stannis the same way the Northern clans did: to fight their enemies, who for the moment are identical with Stannis' enemies. Looking from this angle at Stannis' host, things don't look good for him. He is probably leading a Stark loyalist host with his own knights dropping like flies.

[Dementia]

I think Mormont made it to Greywater Watch and sent word from there. I know ravens can't find GWW, but they can probably be sent from there.

If ravens are anything like homing pigeons, GWW would absolutely be able to send birds.

2) Manderly and Glover shared their information on Bran and Rickon with the Mormonts.

Need a reminder here...what information do Manderly and Glover have on Bran and Rickon? Manderly knows that Rickon is in Skagos...but isn't that all he knows?

[Michael Jon Snow]

If ravens are anything like homing pigeons, GWW would absolutely be able to send birds.

Need a reminder here...what information do Manderly and Glover have on Bran and Rickon? Manderly knows that Rickon is in Skagos...but isn't that all he knows?

We don't know what all Wex has shared with Manderly, but if he knows Rickon is alive, he probably knows Bran is too.

[Peter Woolshirt]

How do we know that, besides Dacey, two of other Maege's daughters went south with her? We have Jon thinking, in his first chapter

Maege Mormont had ridden south with Robb, Jon knew. Her eldest daughter had joined the Young Wolf's host as well. Even if both of them had died, however, Lady Maege had other daughters, younger than Dacey but older than Lyanna. He did not understand why the youngest Mormont should be writing Stannis,

So Jon, at least, doesn't think Maege Mormont took more than Dacey to join Robb.

[Theo1]

Manderly got info from Wex that bran and rick on are live, he just knew where rickon went because h could only follow one of the two groups. Plus th mountain clans loyalty Starks know bran is alive when in SofS the liddle shows up with food for them and definayely knows who bran is.

[Ghost Rider]

How do we know that, besides Dacey, two of other Maege's daughters went south with her? We have Jon thinking, in his first chapter

Maege Mormont had ridden south with Robb, Jon knew. Her eldest daughter had joined the Young Wolf's host as well. Even if both of them had died, however, Lady Maege had other daughters, younger than Dacey but older than Lyanna. He did not understand why the youngest Mormont should be writing Stannis,

So Jon, at least, doesn't think Maege Mormont took more than Dacey to join Robb.

Hmm, if Jon thinks it's weird, there's a good chance, there's something more about it. He seems to know the North and the family relationships there pretty well. Ok, just looked it up:

"Five we were. All girls. Lyanna is back on Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with out mother. Dacey was murdered." (Alysane Mormont to Asha, ADWD, p. 555.)

So, it seems that Lyra and Jory (isn't that a boy's name too?) took part in Robb's war as well, but they didn't die at the RW. That means, they would somehow try to make their way North. Or they followed their mother on her way North (presumably with Robb's will). They would have to pass Greywater Watch of course, meeting Howland Reed.

Anyway, there was still Alysane herself left at Bear Island, a woman grown (as in really grown, she had a 9 year old daughter) along with little Lyanna. It seems likely that the two Mormont women at Bear Island received information at some point about the "king in the North". Lyanna wrote her "screw you!" letter to Stannis. Maybe she was alone, but I don't think she acted without the consent of either her advisors or even her sister. Then, later, we find Alysane with Stannis which makes me think they have some other purpose there then helping Stannis who they could care less about.

[Free Northman]

His name is Stark.

The Mormonts know that Jon is named heir. With a Mormont in Stannis's host, soon the Wulls, Norreys and Liddles will know as well.

And now that the two hosts have met, the Manderley's will know too.

Let's hope Jon reaches Winterfell before news of his death reaches his supporters, else they might really lose heart, what with their King dead before they can even crown him.

It is just the damn Rickon plot that throws everything a bit haywire. It is probably too much too hope that Davos's ship will just sink off Skagos. That damn Mr. Average just seems to be impossible to kill.

He will probably arrive with Rickon just as Jon is about to FINALLY be made a true Stark, and ruin everything.

Damn onion smuggler.

[tearloch]

I wonder how that works. If a king decrees someone is his heir, and it is agreed upon by his other lords, does it matter if other "heirs" are alive? Should it matter if Rickon and Bran are alive if Jon is legitimized and made heir to Winterfell?

[Buried Treasure]

Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK

Jon and Stannis both read this letter and they do not think 'Lyanna Mormont must know of a secret Stark heir', they think that the Mormonts are refusing to pledge fealty to the southerner Stannis BARATHEON. So we have textual evidence that a reasonable interpretation of this quote is that it is a letter of deficance couched in the style of a 10 year-old. Lyanna may or may not know of a secret Stark heir, but this letter is not proof that she does.

I do think the actions of the Mormonts are worth pondering. According to Asha's POV Alysane came to help the attack on Deepwood Motte directly from Bear Island, but she was apparantly not there when Lyanna wrote to Stannis. Was she with her mother before?

If Maege and Glover were headed for the Wall they could have reached there by now. It didn't happen in Dance so I don't think it will happen at all. Could be any number of reasons; they know one of the trueborn Starks is alive, they don't think Jon would take the job now that he is LC... I suspect they have gone back to the South. Neither have returned to their seats, they do not appear to be in any of the other prominent places in the North, and I don't imagine they have just been hanging out at GW for all the months since the Red Wedding. The number one limitation on the North fighting back is the captives / hostages the Freys and Lannisters hold. Maege, Glover (and the Blackfish?) could be plotting to help them all escape, which would allow the loyalist lords to take more direct action. Free the Kingdom now, worry about who rules it later.

[Heavy Horse]

If Meage and Glover have met with Howland, AND if he knows the true birth of Jon, it's possible they are spreading the word, somehow. However the Liddle incounter with Bran could also be getting out that Bran is alive. We could even conclude someone knows his wereabouts (a remote maybe). Either way Lyanna M. could know and could have let the hint slip, either by accident or on purpose... Thing is if R+L=J then Jon would be Targaryen, NOT Stark, if legitimized. It would have to be Bran or Rickon, before Jon in every case.

[tearloch]

If Meage and Glover have met with Howland, AND if he knows the true birth of Jon, it's possible they are spreading the word, somehow. However the Liddle incounter with Bran could also be getting out that Bran is alive. We could even conclude someone knows his wereabouts (a remote maybe). Either way Lyanna M. could know and could have let the hint slip, either by accident or on purpose... Thing is if R+L=J then Jon would be Targaryen, NOT Stark, if legitimized. It would have to be Bran or Rickon, before Jon in every case.

Even if your case is true, Jon is STILL a Stark (through Lyanna). And he is still a bastard, unless Howland also knows of some kind of secret wedding between Lyanna and Rheagar. Now I don't fully know how that would work...if the mother's line makes a bastard legitimate. But if Howland knows of a wedding, making Jon not a bastard at all, he still is half Stark, and I am pretty sure the King can name anyone he wants as the heir, regardless of their normal position in the line of succession.

[MtnLion]

Even if your case is true, Jon is STILL a Stark (through Lyanna). And he is still a bastard, unless Howland also knows of some kind of secret wedding between Lyanna and Rheagar. Now I don't fully know how that would work...if the mother's line makes a bastard legitimate. But if Howland knows of a wedding, making Jon not a bastard at all, he still is half Stark, and I am pretty sure the King can name anyone he wants as the heir, regardless of their normal position in the line of succession.

The kingsguard at the Tower of Joy believed that they were protecting an heir, rightfully the king, to the Iron Throne. So, it appears taht Rhaegar and Lyanna were married.

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

Even if your case is true, Jon is STILL a Stark (through Lyanna). And he is still a bastard, unless Howland also knows of some kind of secret wedding between Lyanna and Rheagar. Now I don't fully know how that would work...if the mother's line makes a bastard legitimate. But if Howland knows of a wedding, making Jon not a bastard at all, he still is half Stark, and I am pretty sure the King can name anyone he wants as the heir, regardless of their normal position in the line of succession.

true but once the news of Rickon spreads Jon (if the letter is about him) will no longer be Stark heir, he will be just Stark and in line after Bran and Rickon

[Starky Smurf]

true but once the news of Rickon spreads Jon (if the letter is about him) will no longer be Stark heir, he will be just Stark and in line after Bran and Rickon

I'm in the "if Robb decreed Jon was his rightful heir, then Jon is the rightful heir regardless" camp. Given the North's respect and love for their liege lords, and particularly their last King of the North, I suspect that they would be honour-bound to follow Robb's decree.

[LadyMary]

The Mormonts definitely know that there are still Starks at large who are not named Sansa. Why else would Lyanna (!) Mormont write her defying letter to Stannis? (You rock, girl!) She denies Stannis the Mormont allegiance because it belongs to "the king in the North and his name is Stark!" Where did the Mormonts get their informations about surviving Starks from?

1) Maege Mormont has reached Greywater Watch and sent information from there, including the contents of Robb's will. That would make Jon a Stark and king in the North.

2) Manderly and Glover shared their information on Bran and Rickon with the Mormonts.

3) The information could be connected to the Direwolf flighing over Riverrun. I don't believe that Robb had impregnated Jeyne Westerling, mostly because it seems pointless storywise. It complicates the story because nobody would have to believe that the baby is really Robb's. That leads me to conclude that there is some other king in the North. The Blackfish would be in the position to share his information.

Still there is this Mormont woman in Stannis' army which is puzzling. Did they change their mind? Judging from Lyanna's letter they seem to be Stark loyalists to boot. It's possible that they followed Stannis the same way the Northern clans did: to fight their enemies, who for the moment are identical with Stannis' enemies. Looking from this angle at Stannis' host, things don't look good for him. He is probably leading a Stark loyalist host with his own knights dropping like flies.

Well, Lyanna Mormont ( who does indeed rock!) sent the letter to Stannis before Stannis liberated Deepwood Motte. It may just be wishful thinking of a young girl who isn't ready to give up on the King in the North named Stark. After that, Alysane Mormont who is Maege Mormont's heir, swore fealty to Stannis. At that point the remnants of the Northern forces were split between Bolton who commands the North at the pleasure of King Tommen and his grandfather, Manderly who is technically and on the surface on the same side (although not ideologically or in truth), and Stannis with the mountain clans. I think it's doubtful that Alysane would ever join Bolton who allied with the Freys and bent the knee to Tommen, and she probably figures Stannis is more likely to restore a Stark to Winterfell if he wins the Iron Throne. Anyway, in the absence of Maege, Alysane doesn't have many choices and Stannis got there first. What would have happened if she refused to swear fealty to Stannis?

My guess is Lady Mormont is hiding out at Greywater Watch and is conducting a guerilla war against the Lannisters along with Glover and Reed, for the time being. The details of Robb's will would be honored by his loyal bannermen but not by the other factions - Tommen (Bolton, and Frey), or Stannis. I think the other Northmen would honor Robb's wishes, but that assumes Jon isn't believed permanently dead or out of the line of succession because he's still attached to the Nights Watch.

[LadyMary]

Well, Lyanna Mormont ( who does indeed rock!) sent the letter to Stannis before Stannis liberated Deepwood Motte. It may just be wishful thinking of a young girl who isn't ready to give up on the King in the North named Stark. After that, Alysane Mormont who is Maege Mormont's heir, swore fealty to Stannis. At that point the remnants of the Northern forces were split between Bolton who commands the North at the pleasure of King Tommen and his grandfather, Manderly who is technically and on the surface on the same side (although not ideologically or in truth), and Stannis with the mountain clans. I think it's doubtful that Alysane would ever join Bolton who allied with the Freys and bent the knee to Tommen, and she probably figures Stannis is more likely to restore a Stark to Winterfell if he wins the Iron Throne. Anyway, in the absence of Maege, Alysane doesn't have many choices and Stannis got there first. What would have happened if she refused to swear fealty to Stannis?

My guess is Lady Mormont is hiding out at Greywater Watch and is conducting a guerilla war against the Lannisters along with Glover and Reed, for the time being. The details of Robb's will would be honored by his loyal bannermen but not by the other factions - Tommen (Bolton, and Frey), or Stannis. I think the other Northmen would honor Robb's wishes, but that assumes Jon isn't believed permanently dead or out of the line of succession because he's still attached to the Nights Watch.

I am pretty sure the King can name anyone he wants as the heir, regardless of their normal position in the line of succession.

I'm in the "if Robb decreed Jon was his rightful heir, then Jon is the rightful heir regardless" camp. Given the North's respect and love for their liege lords, and particularly their last King of the North, I suspect that they would be honour-bound to follow Robb's decree.

Robb's decree was on the basis that his brothers were believed to be dead, his sister was married to a Lannister and his other sister was missing a presumed dead. The point he made was that he'd rather have a natural son of Ned Stark whom he knew and loved rather than some distant cousins in the Vale that he'd never met. If it's learned that one or both of Rickon and Bran are alive, they would be rightful heirs to Winterfell without the decree. Jon is basically Plan B in that situation. but if R+L=J, Jon's claim comes after Ned's children anyway because he's a Stark on his mother's side.

Anyway, I'm sure Stannis would disagree with Robb's decree anyway whereas he would probably recognize that a Stark was the rightful heir to Winterfell in any case. If knowledge of Rickon and Bran's whereabouts becomes common knowledge in the North, then Bolton's claim is weakened. He rules at Tommen's pleasure and I think the Northmen would support the true Lord of Winterfell - a trueborn son of Ned, or a legitimized natural-born Stark. But I think he'd have quite a problem on his hands if he tried to deny Jon the Lordship of Winterfell...His forces are dwindling and his Southern knights are not equipped to fight a mutiny in the snow and cold.

[Miriel]

Well, Lyanna Mormont ( who does indeed rock!) sent the letter to Stannis before Stannis liberated Deepwood Motte. It may just be wishful thinking of a young girl who isn't ready to give up on the King in the North named Stark. After that, Alysane Mormont who is Maege Mormont's heir, swore fealty to Stannis. At that point the remnants of the Northern forces were split between Bolton who commands the North at the pleasure of King Tommen and his grandfather, Manderly who is technically and on the surface on the same side (although not ideologically or in truth), and Stannis with the mountain clans. I think it's doubtful that Alysane would ever join Bolton who allied with the Freys and bent the knee to Tommen, and she probably figures Stannis is more likely to restore a Stark to Winterfell if he wins the Iron Throne. Anyway, in the absence of Maege, Alysane doesn't have many choices and Stannis got there first. What would have happened if she refused to swear fealty to Stannis?

I am not sure we know for certain that Alysanne swore fealty to Stannis? She's marching w/ him, but has she sworn to him? And he certainly did not go to Bear Island. She somehow met up w/ him. So the implication is that she is w/ Stannis of her own free choice.

And did the mountain clans swear fealty to Stannis? Or are they just marching with him as a temporary thing until he frees Arya? I thought it might be a situation similar to Manderley pledging to swear to Stannis as King if Davos brings him Rickon. Maybe all these clans will eventually swear to Stannis, but I did not think it has happened as of yet.

[Theo1]

Remember what jon told Stannis. You have to ask the mountain clans for help, not demand they follow you because you say you are their king. T mountain clan say, hey, why not o kick some Bolton ass and avenge the Starks. No one with a brain, or without a hosting of the Frey, believes that the iron born sacked winter fell. They all seem to know it was th bastard of Bolton.

So, it is an alliance now, not. Pledge of utter loyalty. I think the Ms with Stannis are in the same camp. In fact I think th only o who actually pledged fie Ty was the traitorous Humpback of a Karstark.

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

I'm in the "if Robb decreed Jon was his rightful heir, then Jon is the rightful heir regardless" camp. Given the North's respect and love for their liege lords, and particularly their last King of the North, I suspect that they would be honour-bound to follow Robb's decree.

if they really love their liege lord they would sooner acknowledge his child with Jeyne and since Sybelle is a bitch that option is out of question, then goes his true brother as heir followed by his legitimized bastard brother - Jon Stark as King-Reagent until either of princes gained adulthood is something entirely different