[ADWD SPOILERS] Azor Ahai - The prophecy

[iNinja]

My Crackpot Theory = Jaime is AA, son of Ares (sp?). Cersei is Nissa Nissa. He's reborn when he kills her, turns his whole life around to fight evil and can now fight with his left hand.

I think the sword is real, I just don't think it needs to be tempered again. Unless the death of the first AA burned the fires out of the sword. But I think The sword being Valerian steel is a red herring. None of the books say it is Valerian; just that it was heated and folded and hammered for a hundred days and a hundred nights.

Jamie already has the red sword.

[tearloch]

And Jaime's red sword used to be Ice....Fire and Ice....

[hesitantreader]

Brienne also has a red sword and she might have to use it to kill Jamie, for who she certainly has an attachment. She also may have been reborn, though we will have to wait for the next book to confirm.

[Brienne=Azor]

I like the Theory about the Three Incarnations of Azor Azai... but I don't think Tyrion will be riding Rhaegal or Viserion any time soon... I think Tyrion has a role to Play in the Prophecies given to Dany, but they will be related to one of the infamous treasons.

Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them.

Kraken and Dark Flame (Victarion and Moqorro?), Lion and Griffin (Tyrion and Connington?), The Sun's son and the Mummer's Dragon (Quentyn and Aegon?)

I don't think Aegon is a false Targaryen... Mummer's Dragon could be interpreted as being backed by Varys (After all, it's not the Mummer Dragon, but the Mummer's Dragon). The way I see it, he's still a true Dragon, but not to be trusted by Dany.

Ooh, I like that reading. I had totally anticipated (because of the "mummer's dragon" that he was not a true Targ, but you're completely right. That changes a lot of my thinking on this...

[the 3 eyed bro]

What are the arguments for bran being AA, i think he will have a very importang part in the prophecy given his powers

[Cydal]

What are the arguments for bran being AA, i think he will have a very importang part in the prophecy given his powers

He's a prince thanks to Robb's declaration, He's going after the Old Gods and the children just like the Last hero which probably makes him the Last Hero/3rd head portion of the AA gig. You will fly

[Clemar the Sober]

Haven't posted here now for quite some time, but after reading Dance and some of the post I had some thoughts on the Azor Ahai prophecy in general and in more detail on the middle part:

"…Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt…"

The prophecy itself can be split into three parts, in which the first part refers to a specific time "When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers …", the middle part "…Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt…" to a specific place and the last part "…to wake dragons out of stone." to his destiny, a future event.

Now to come back to my theory let me state first that it is built on two basic assumptions that Jon will be Azor Ahai and that the prophecy us such was not yet fulfilled.

I furthermore think that the smoke and salt part of the prophecy refers to the storage rooms bellow Castle Black and the Wall, to be more precise to the salted and smoked food.

The description of the storage rooms and its content is very precise, and I think that this not just make a point that the food is a limited resources. In particular interesting for me was the mentioning of the smokehouse.

So here is my full theory, including all the missing links:

1. Jon in the end wargs into Ghost or maybe into Old Bear’s raven.

2. His body will be, due to the fact that the ice cells are snowed in and frozen up, placed into the storage room, to be more precise in the last one bellow the Wall with the frozen flesh.

This might as well be also a good interpretation of Bran’s vision in aGoT:

"…He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him ..."

Why he will be placed there I can only speculate, but I believe that Melisandre or somebody else might wish to preserve the body as evidence for Stannis.

3. I speculate that warging inside the wall is not possible. This is why the corpses in the ice cells didn’t become Wights and Coldhands could not pass through the wall.

My theory therefore rest on the fact that the frozen flesh is not just below the Wall, but in a room which is part of the Wall.

4. To revive Jon and allow his conscience to return to his body they will have to move him in the neighboring rooms with salt and smoke, fulfilling middle part of the prophecy.

So this is it. If this was already discussed then please point me to the posts. If not, have some fun with it.

[Eyron]

Haven't posted here now for quite some time, but after reading Dance and some of the post I had some thoughts on the Azor Ahai prophecy in general and in more detail on the middle part:

"…Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt…"

The prophecy itself can be split into three parts, in which the first part refers to a specific time "When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers …", the middle part "…Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt…" to a specific place and the last part "…to wake dragons out of stone." to his destiny, a future event.

Now to come back to my theory let me state first that it is built on two basic assumptions that Jon will be Azor Ahai and that the prophecy us such was not yet fulfilled.

I furthermore think that the smoke and salt part of the prophecy refers to the storage rooms bellow Castle Black and the Wall, to be more precise to the salted and smoked food.

The description of the storage rooms and its content is very precise, and I think that this not just make a point that the food is a limited resources. In particular interesting for me was the mentioning of the smokehouse.

So here is my full theory, including all the missing links:

1. Jon in the end wargs into Ghost or maybe into Old Bear’s raven.

2. His body will be, due to the fact that the ice cells are snowed in and frozen up, placed into the storage room, to be more precise in the last one bellow the Wall with the frozen flesh.

This might as well be also a good interpretation of Bran’s vision in aGoT:

"…He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him ..."

Why he will be placed there I can only speculate, but I believe that Melisandre or somebody else might wish to preserve the body as evidence for Stannis.

3. I speculate that warging inside the wall is not possible. This is why the corpses in the ice cells didn’t become Wights and Coldhands could not pass through the wall.

My theory therefore rest on the fact that the frozen flesh is not just below the Wall, but in a room which is part of the Wall.

4. To revive Jon and allow his conscience to return to his body they will have to move him in the neighboring rooms with salt and smoke, fulfilling middle part of the prophecy.

So this is it. If this was already discussed then please point me to the posts. If not, have some fun with it.

I like this!

Really down to earth interpretation, and with good result. I also think under the Wall is where he will be kept. I have read other posts that suggested the storage rooms before, but I never thought to put the Salt and Smoke in this context and I don't think I've seen anyone else mention it, but I have not read all the speculations on this topic. There is too much of it :)

Would be a little funny if this turned out to be the fulfilling of the prophecy, not so glamorous or spectacular as many are hoping for I'm sure!

[Asturias]

It might be bad for some readers if Tyrion isn't a Lannister, but it'd be liberating for Tyrion. "You mean I'm not one of these jerks who've always treated me horribly? So I can stop hating myself for being a Lannister. And I can stop feeling guilt about crossbowing Tywin! Because he deserved it and now I'm no longer a kinslayer for doling out his just punishment! Awesome!"

Ha! also, the Second Sons would then be even more screwed than ever when they tried to cash in their IOUs. Not only would the banks refuse to honor their parchments, but now Casterly Rock would say "This isn't even a Lannister signature."

I get the feeling that Tywin never totally and completely knew for sure whether Tyrion was his son or Aeris' and it ate him up inside. Like he knew his wife had spent a lot of time around the king, and she might have been boinked by Aeris and didn't tell him to spare him the pain of knowing and having to rage impotently, you know? So when Tywin went on and on with that "You're no son of mine" business, he hated either possiblility. He hated the thought that Tyrion was his son (because that would be an embarrassment) and hated that Tyrion might not be his son. That's why Tyrion couldn't win. And in the process, Tyrion became hardened like Jenna says into Tywin's "real" son, behaviorally speaking, despite maybe being Aerys' actual get. Which was another reason to hate Tyrion, because the gleaming son had disappointed Twyin behaviorally while this little cretin dared to think and act like a Lannister should..

No matter what, Tyrion is at least half Lannister. His mother is a Lannister so theres no escaping that for him. Off topic, another reason Tywin couldn't just kill Tyrion is because he's actually his kin- a first cousin once removed.

[Asturias]

What are the arguments for bran being AA, i think he will have a very importang part in the prophecy given his powers

Someone made a really god point about Bran. Bran woke a "dragon out of stone" when he came to Bloodraven in the stone cave. He also could have been reborn after he was pushed from the tower. He's definetly in a good position to fight the others being that he is in the thick of the North beyond the wall. One more thing leading to bran possibly being AA or at least part of the 3 individuals that might make up AA, is that when he first came to Bloodraven, BR told him he would fly. That could just mean through ravens and warging, but it could also mean through dragons.

[Lemonraven]

I think that there will be several incarnations of Azor Ahai, or rather, several people that can fit into the prophecy. This is just speculation, but I don't believe GRRM will go and tell us "Dany was AA" or "Jon was AA" but that we will have different characters that will contribute to resolving the larger arc ; and that everyone of them can be read as being Azor Ahai, which is at heart a story about sacrifice... I also think that the prophecy won't play literally (i.e. no Jon creating Lightbringer and killing Others)

[hotweaselsoup]

I furthermore think that the smoke and salt part of the prophecy refers to the storage rooms bellow Castle Black and the Wall, to be more precise to the salted and smoked food.

I had posted something along these lines a while ago, but it was half in jest. I guess I can't get past the idea of such a momentous prophecy being fulfilled by deli meats :D But it does make sense, and I do think Jon is going to be put in cold storage inside the Wall somewhere.

I think that there will be several incarnations of Azor Ahai, or rather, several people that can fit into the prophecy. This is just speculation, but I don't believe GRRM will go and tell us "Dany was AA" or "Jon was AA" but that we will have different characters that will contribute to ; and that everyone of them can be read as being Azor Ahai, which is at heart a story about sacrifice... I also think that the prophecy won't play literally (i.e. no Jon creating Lightbringer and killing Others)

I've been coming around to the idea that there are multiple interpretations for every prophecy and vision - maybe a past, present, and future interpretation of each. And I agree with you in that I don't think we're going to get definitive answers at the end of it all.

[Black Crow]

As to the multiple interpretations and possible multiple incarnations, I have this problem with Lightbringer the sword.

Now OK Mel and all the other interpreters of the prophesy are expecting a mighty warrior (singular) with a famous sword (singular); with the best will in the world that one warrior with one sword, however good and however sharp, is going to have his or her work cut out if the prophesy is to be read literally...