The Undying prophecy: the "Stone Beast"

[PatrickStormborn]

If the stone beast is referring to Euron, then I think it's probably a crow. I just can't see what sort of lie she'd have to slay about him.

The Bran idea is interesting! The lie she slays could be that he's dead - which would relate to the last two visions about kings because Bran is the heir to the North.

[BrosBeforeSnows]

I love the idea of the three heads of the dragon being : a fire dragon, a ice dragon and a stone dragon. (Dany, Jon and whoever is the Stone Dragon)

Every time I hear a prophecy about a stone beast, or a stone dragon, or a giant armored in stone, I instantly think of Tyrion, because of Casterly Rock. A tenuous connection, granted, but he is technically the heir to the Rock, and the "stone" could be in reference to that. I imagine someone's already brought this up, but I thought I'd point it out nonetheless.

Fire = Dany

Ice = Jon Snow

Stone = Tyrion

[blackseer]

If the stone beast turns out to be Jon Connington, the smoking tower would be either Storm's End, which has only one big round tower IIRC, or Sunspear, in case he goes there for whatever reason.

But I still like the Euron theory more. The smoking tower akes more sense, since the Hightower of Oldtown is supposed to be the Pharos of Alexandria, but bigger, so there is always fire there.

[Sevumar]

I think it's unlikely that the "stone beast" or stone dragon is a person. The vision pretty specifically mentions "breathing shadow fire" so it seems to me that's a direct reference to something beastly or monstrous instead of a metaphor for a person's actions or weapons.

That's not to say that Connington or Euron couldn't be involved in the creation or unleashing of such a beast. Blackseer's idea about Oldtown is interesting. Do we know if the Hightower in Oldtown was made using any magic? It's supposed to be the tallest structure in Westeros, even higher than the Wall. And there are indications that something fishy is going on there with Lord Leyton having locked himself at the top with the Mad Maid "consulting books of spells." There's also all the intrigue going on at the Citadel too.

Since it's possible greyscale could be involved here, it's worth mentioning that we learn in Feast that in Maester Pycelle's youth (~70-80 years ago?) Lord Quenton Hightower closed the gates of Oldtown and burned the ships in port while half the city and most of the maesters died of the grey plague.

[blackseer]

Since it's possible greyscale could be involved here, it's worth mentioning that we learn in Feast that in Maester Pycelle's youth (~70-80 years ago?) Lord Quenton Hightower closed the gates of Oldtown and burned the ships in port while half the city and most of the maesters died of the grey plague.

Was it the grey plague? I thought it was the great spring sickness, whatever it is.

[Sevumar]

Was it the grey plague? I thought it was the great spring sickness, whatever it is.

Pycelle names it the grey plague, and I'll quote a bit of it below. The wiki has Pycelle's birth year down as 215, and the Great Spring Sickness was in 209, so it sounds like this is a different incident. I think this is from before we knew grey plague was the most contagious form of greyscale, too.

"Ser Jaime, I have seen terrible things in my time," the old man said. "Wars, battles, murders most foul ... I was a boy in Oldtown when the grey plague took half the city and three quarters of the Citadel. Lord Hightower burned every ship at port, closed the gates, and commanded the guards to slay all those who tried to flee, be they men, women, or babes in arms."

[blackseer]

And he was talking to Jaime?! Don't remember that at all!

But ok. Got my deseases mixed up.

EDIT: Got to ask: is this Lord Hightower from the time of the grey plague the same that rules at the time of the books? I know that Leyton Hightower is old, but that old?

[Sevumar]

And he was talking to Jaime?! Don't remember that at all!

But ok. Got my deseases mixed up.

EDIT: Got to ask: is this Lord Hightower from the time of the grey plague the same that rules at the time of the books? I know that Leyton Hightower is old, but that old?

Yeah, it's a Jaime chapter early in Feast before he goes to stand vigil over Tywin's corpse. My copy is the Bantam Spectra mass market paperback and the conversation spans pages 169-170 if you want to check it out.

The Lord of Oldtown at that point is Quenton Hightower, Later in the passage, Pycelle describes how the people of Oldtown killed him and his son after the plague passed. It's not said how many generations back he is from Lord Leyton.

[ipsuel]

Does anyone consider the stone beast to be something along the lines of what Summer saw when Bran/Rikkon were about to come out of the crypts. I kinda do... and kinda don't.

(Finally got my son reading the series, but he wont let me discuss it with him cuz he's still at book 1 hehe)... Anyhoo... who would be responsible for waking that stone beast (if that longshot could even be considered)? Bolton? Greyjoy? Or would it be Bran?

Sigh... I'm late for work and I can't pull myself away from the boards haha... this place has my brain hurting with so many good theories!

[Lady of Long Lake]

Every time I hear a prophecy about a stone beast, or a stone dragon, or a giant armored in stone, I instantly think of Tyrion, because of Casterly Rock. A tenuous connection, granted, but he is technically the heir to the Rock, and the "stone" could be in reference to that. I imagine someone's already brought this up, but I thought I'd point it out nonetheless.

Fire = Dany

Ice = Jon Snow

Stone = Tyrion

I've thought of that too, especially if Tywin the Tyrant isn't his father. Then each of the 3 would have a Targ parent. I'm re-reading the series again and in Storm, Tywin says to Tyrion that he can't prove he is not his son and he will never get Casterly Rock. Tywin doesn't say things he doesn't mean. He doesn't think Tyrion is his.

But I''ve also thought about others who were raised amongst stones: Theon, Shireen, Robert Arryn. Tyrion would be the best choice since we know him so much better than the others.

[blackseer]

But I''ve also thought about others who were raised amongst stones: Theon, Shireen, Robert Arryn. Tyrion would be the best choice since we know him so much better than the others.

Rickon is in Skagos, which means "stone" in the old language.

[Tagganaro]

I like the idea, and you might be right, but I still think there's enough evidence to see the "stone beast" that breathes fire as a dragon.

It would just make too much sense with Melisandre always talking about Waking Dragons from Stone.

When you tie that together with Shireen's nightmares about Dragons eating her and Summer's vision upon leaving Winterfell's Crypt it really seems to me to indicate that somewhere along the line another Dragon will be woken out of a stone structure.

Originally I assumed Dragonstone was the place- I mean how much more obvious can you get than naming a place Dragonstone and having enormous scary stone structures there and the fact that it was the Targaryen stronghold of the past. Maybe this is Quaithe's prophecy about going back to go forward, but I don't buy this for 2 reasons. One, we've already spent time in Dragonstone and it seems to be abandoned as far as the narrative is concerned. Two, I don't see why Dany would need to wake another Dragon, she already has three.

So to me this leaves three places, but really 2 of importance. The 2 most likely to me are Winterfell or Storm's End. Both clearly have some magic working there, and both will probably have supposed Targaryens there at some point (Aegon in Storm's End and maybe Jon back at Winterfell?) We know Storm's End has some mojo working there- Melisandre couldn't use her shadow spells from outside the walls of Storm's End. As for Winterfell, this has already been discusssed a lot. The fact that Winterfell is apparently built on a hot stream is suggestive enough, we also have Summer's vision of the Dragon and Osha's humourous remark about how Bran and Rickon and Hodor were making enough noise to wake a dragon upon exiting the crypt. Tie that together with the mystery of Winterfell's crypts lower levels and the fact that we had yet another scene set in the crypts in ADWD, as if to remind us that they existed, and I think there's a very good chance there's magic or a Dragon beneath Winterfell.

As for the 3rd but lesser possibility in my opinion, we have the Wall. I don't think this is as likely because the Wall is made of Ice, but I think it's Tormund at one point who remarks that certain weather is present the Wall resembles Stone. There's also the possibility that the Nightfort is the structure. This is another magical type of fortress, and we know Shireen is heading there, which would also fulfill her Dragon nightmares. We also have Bran being afraid of Hodor waking a creature when he threw the stone down the well that led to the exit from the Wall, although that was just Sam, and the fact that there seemed to be warm water around the magical exit to the North of the Wall under the Nightfort.

So, even though you make good points I still think there's enough to stick with the stone creature who breathes fire being a Dragon.

[Sevumar]

I like the idea, and you might be right, but I still think there's enough evidence to see the "stone beast" that breathes fire as a dragon.

It would just make too much sense with Melisandre always talking about Waking Dragons from Stone.

So, even though you make good points I still think there's enough to stick with the stone creature who breathes fire being a Dragon.

I think you have a good point, there's a strong case for the creature at least looking like a dragon. The description of it breathing fire is a key attribute of dragons and other than various relatives of dragons, nothing else in Martin's world is capable of it.

One thing I think we need to keep in mind when discussing the possibility of other characters acquiring, hatching, or summoning dragons is that these would need to enter the world nearly grown and ready for combat. Dany's dragons took 5 books to get from eggs to a size where they would be of any use in combat and to the story. There isn't time left for another batch of hatchlings to grow up and I think that escapes people when we talk about the prospect of hidden dragon eggs.

[ipsuel]

<snip>

One thing I think we need to keep in mind when discussing the possibility of other characters acquiring, hatching, or summoning dragons is that these would need to enter the world nearly grown and ready for combat. Dany's dragons took 5 books to get from eggs to a size where they would be of any use in combat and to the story. There isn't time left for another batch of hatchlings to grow up and I think that escapes people when we talk about the prospect of hidden dragon eggs.

In relation to WF (and yes, I believe Summer saw a dragon) --> could one of Maester Aemon's lines he relevant, if somewhat off geographically? [Keep in mind he made a mistake about tPtwP -- recently realizing it could be a princess instead[.

"Fire consumes, but cold preserves." (AFfC)

My train of thought is that the cold preserved a dragon in the north somewhere... cryogenics (or something like that). I've posted this before, but most people said 'no, no, no' -- but I really think that something is preserved in the cold... and that is what Aemon meant, not the obvious 'gheez, i shoulda stayed at the wall cuz now im feeling olddddd." I think that's a crock of sh*t. Aemon is too smart, and too selfless to worry about himself in the big scheme of things.

[Tin Pony]

In relation to WF (and yes, I believe Summer saw a dragon) --> could one of Maester Aemon's lines he relevant, if somewhat off geographically? [Keep in mind he made a mistake about tPtwP -- recently realizing it could be a princess instead[.

"Fire consumes, but cold preserves." (AFfC)

My train of thought is that the cold preserved a dragon in the north somewhere... cryogenics (or something like that). I've posted this before, but most people said 'no, no, no' -- but I really think that something is preserved in the cold... and that is what Aemon meant, not the obvious 'gheez, i shoulda stayed at the wall cuz now im feeling olddddd." I think that's a crock of sh*t. Aemon is too smart, and too selfless to worry about himself in the big scheme of things.

Do you happen to have the page number or perhaps the chapter for that quote? I think you could definitely be on to something but I'd like to re-read it in context.

[ipsuel]

I am looking at my pdf version, and the page numbers do not match the books. (It's 304 of 588 total if that helps). It may take me a few, but I will try to find it in the pb version as well.

Also, I wanted to add... he said while talking about dragons in particular... Below is the paragraph before/after. People laughed me off... but still, this is how I take it. :)

“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies, of wonders and terrors that no man now living could hope to comprehend... or...”

“Or?” said Sam.

“... or not.” Aemon chuckled softly. “Or I am an old man, feverish and dying.” He closed his white eyes wearily, then forced them open once again. “I should not have left the Wall. Lord Snow could not have known, but I should have seen it. Fire consumes, but cold preserves. The Wall... but it is too late to go running back. The Stranger waits outside my door and will not be denied. Steward, you have served me faithfully. Do this one last brave thing for me. Go down to the ships, Sam. Learn all you can about these dragons.”

[ipsuel]

Found it... Page 545 in pb version :)

[Tin Pony]

Found it... Page 545 in pb version :)

Thank you! definitely some pretty crazy stuff even if it doesn't turn out. I totally missed both this and what summer saw on my 1st read.

[Tin Pony]

Reading make me think that a dragon wouldn't necessarily be living under winterfell but instead somewhere on the wall. Nightfort?

“I should not have left the Wall. Lord Snow could not have known, but I should have seen it. Fire consumes, but cold preserves. The Wall... but it is too late to go running back."

[ipsuel]

that's why i said he may be off geographically speaking -- still in the north tho :)

and I think it's the point that matters... on his deathbed, he's thinking of dragons, and that cold preserves.

I dont think he was talking about himself -- that's not him