Did Jon find the Horn of Winter?

[Clout_in_the_ear]

There is also speculation on the connection between Ghost and Bloodraven, there is so much that makes me think there is a special bond between them, I can't shake it off. The albinos in Westeros seem to have much in common, Bloodraven is a greenseer bound to life by magic of the north, the Starks and Jon are wargs and Ghost and the other direwolves were not found by coincident in my opinion.

Dont forget that woods witch on top of High Heart Hill. She seems to be another albino greenseer with red eyes. She seems like she might be important later in the story. She asks Lem to sing her a song about "her Jenny" the only song about anyone named Jenny is Jenny of Oldstones who was married to Duncan the Small, and later brought a small woman to court who she claimed to be a COTF. The woods witch also predicted the PWWP would come from the Aerys/Rhaella line. I think eye color in general has significance to greenseer abilities. Remember what bloodraven told bran about powerful greenseers with red or green eyes where marked by the gods? Shaggydog has bright green eyes, and Ghost has bright red eyes. interesting....

[Shaggydog Stark]

:bawl: :bawl: :bawl:

But nah. You need the Horn of Winter to WAKE the giants. That's the magic part. You don't need to control them because they are on your team anyway. Mance had already convinced those who had been left so far to fight for him, even if from what Osha told Bran, men and giants are usually not on friendly terms. They might not be intellectuals, but those we have seen have their own culture, they have even invented jokes already ;) You can talk with them. They are not as fierce as the dragons maybe, which are more like flying nuclear weapons, but have no brain at all. So you can easily enslave THEM. We have a dragon horn already.

Enslaved dragons, a slave army, fiery unnatural magic and crazy dragon riders on the one side - free people, trees and giants and the fury of the wild on the other. How about that? Let's keep up some cliches! Wise old Ents Pissed off, aggressive giants kicking the asses of some random firedemon's/Sauron's R'hllor's minions, minus all the funny Oxford talk and annoying little people crawling about, that would be nice. Who needs deconstructionism all the time? And the fate of Jorah and the Hardhome slavers proved the point that GRRM doesn't tolerate slavery in the north, by the way.

I am sorry fassreiter for depressing you.

But the giants are already awake....so the horn is probably for controlling them. Unless, the horn awakens a different race of giants?

NIce avatar =)

Hey, yours is grey on white! I am jealous! :)

[Shaggydog Stark]

I'm still thinking that "giants" in "waking giants from the earth" means something else than actual giants, as we've seen them. Something else could be meant. Waking something giant from the earth, the giant powers of the earth, something like that.

This interesting, and I am beginning to have the same suspicions. Perhaps they will help battle the huge frozen spiders of the Others?

[Shaggydog Stark]

Dont forget that woods witch on top of High Heart Hill. She seems to be another albino greenseer with red eyes. She seems like she might be important later in the story. She asks Lem to sing her a song about "her Jenny" the only song about anyone named Jenny is Jenny of Oldstones who was married to Duncan the Small, and later brought a small woman to court who she claimed to be a COTF. The woods witch also predicted the PWWP would come from the Aerys/Rhaella line. I think eye color in general has significance to greenseer abilities. Remember what bloodraven told bran about powerful greenseers with red or green eyes where marked by the gods? Shaggydog has bright green eyes, and Ghost has bright red eyes. interesting....

Wow, excellent! I really like this and it ties a few more loose ends.

[Eyron]

Dont forget that woods witch on top of High Heart Hill. She seems to be another albino greenseer with red eyes. She seems like she might be important later in the story. She asks Lem to sing her a song about "her Jenny" the only song about anyone named Jenny is Jenny of Oldstones who was married to Duncan the Small, and later brought a small woman to court who she claimed to be a COTF. The woods witch also predicted the PWWP would come from the Aerys/Rhaella line. I think eye color in general has significance to greenseer abilities. Remember what bloodraven told bran about powerful greenseers with red or green eyes where marked by the gods? Shaggydog has bright green eyes, and Ghost has bright red eyes. interesting....

oh right!

I forgot to mention the woods witch! I put her in this context too but forgot it when writing.

Good catch on the Shaggydogs eyes, I had forgot that all together. Rickon and him have been absent too long, can't wait for them to return, with force.

Yes, if the woods witch never appears again in this series it will be a little like a Tom Bombadil anti-climax.

This interesting, and I am beginning to have the same suspicions. Perhaps they will help battle the huge frozen spiders of the Others?

The spiders are a conundrum, will they only be released at a certain point or are they simply myth?

The Others are a mystery in whole actually, I mean what are they waiting for? Why the guerilla warfare in the haunted forest? Are they only some 5-10 people/beings?

[Eyron]

...

Lovely avatar! :D

[Shaggydog Stark]

The spiders are a conundrum, will they only be released at a certain point or are they simply myth?

The Others are a mystery in whole actually, I mean what are they waiting for? Why the guerilla warfare in the haunted forest? Are they only some 5-10 people/beings?

I think we can believe the spiders exist, because they were mentioned several times from different sources. Perhaps they will show up when the real attack takes place. Good point about the Others, what the hell are they waiting for? I think perhaps, they were waiting for winter and now it has come...

[Eyron]

I think we can believe the spiders exist, because they were mentioned several times from different sources. Perhaps they will show up when the real attack takes place. Good point about the Others, what the hell are they waiting for? I think perhaps, they were waiting for winter and now it has come...

It must be the proper cold they're waiting for, and what we've seen was only teasers. They are pretty stupid in that case, announcing themselves like that. Hey! We are here now, better hone your swords and get ready! See you in a couple of years and good luck finding your hero with the sword that can kill us :)

[fassreiter]

I am sorry fassreiter for depressing you.

But the giants are already awake....so the horn is probably for controlling them. Unless, the horn awakens a different race of giants?

I think we could use more giants. A hundred is not enough and lots of them died below the Wall. So let's wake up some more. But the Horn could also be for different giants. Probably more ancient, or bigger giants. Maybe less communicative giants led by those we already saw, like Ents and Huorns, but comparably to earth quakes maybe. Throwing rocks and stuff. But I don't think you need a horn to make them do your bidding, that would take their fierceness away and all you had would be sad, mindless brutes. Those giants we saw followed Mance freely against a common enemy, so why should more and bigger giants not be willing to do the same? If those we saw had had objections against his leadership, I think it would have been easy for them to get rid of him. It's often emphasized that the giants were not able to stand against the Others/the wights. Maybe there are a lot of giant-wights already on the march? Would be nice to have living giants then, and the more the better. Someone blow that Horn already. Yes, Sam, I am looking at you.

[Ignacia]

Sam doesn't have the horn now. At least not in the spanish version, he gave it to the captain of that ship in a AFFC:

"El capitán había pedido también la cadena de Aemon, pero Sam se mostró inflexible en aquel aspecto. Les explicó que perder la cadena era una deshonra para cualquier maestre. Xhondo tuvo que repetirlo tres veces antes de que Quhuru Mo lo aceptara. Cuando cerraron el trato, Sam ya no tenía botas, prendas negras ni ropa interior, ni tampoco el cuerno roto que había encontrado Jon Nieve en el Puño de los Primeros Hombres." (AFFC, Samwell 4, 13th paragraph)

It says something like "When Sam closed the deal he didn't have boots anymore (...) neither the broken horn that Jon Snow had found". So he doesn't have it, unless this is a huge print/translation mistake.

So if the horn is not with Sam now, how could it join back to the story again?

[Shaggydog Stark]

It must be the proper cold they're waiting for, and what we've seen was only teasers. They are pretty stupid in that case, announcing themselves like that. Hey! We are here now, better hone your swords and get ready! See you in a couple of years and good luck finding your hero with the sword that can kill us :)

:lol:

They can announce themselves as much as they like, nobody in the south seems to care. They seem to think that everything north of the Wall is snarks and grumpkins.

I think we could use more giants. A hundred is not enough and lots of them died below the Wall. So let's wake up some more. But the Horn could also be for different giants. Probably more ancient, or bigger giants. Maybe less communicative giants led by those we already saw, like Ents and Huorns, but comparably to earth quakes maybe. Throwing rocks and stuff. But I don't think you need a horn to make them do your bidding, that would take their fierceness away and all you had would be sad, mindless brutes. Those giants we saw followed Mance freely against a common enemy, so why should more and bigger giants not be willing to do the same? If those we saw had had objections against his leadership, I think it would have been easy for them to get rid of him. It's often emphasized that the giants were not able to stand against the Others/the wights. Maybe there are a lot of giant-wights already on the march? Would be nice to have living giants then, and the more the better. Someone blow that Horn already. Yes, Sam, I am looking at you.

I like this. They are maybe another breed of giants? I think they will be very dangerous, hence they need the horn to be controlled :). Sorry, just teasing, yes it can work without the controlling if it is the way you describe it and that would be cool.

[Eyron]

Sam doesn't have the horn now. At least not in the spanish version, he gave it to the captain of that ship in a AFFC:

"El capitán había pedido también la cadena de Aemon, pero Sam se mostró inflexible en aquel aspecto. Les explicó que perder la cadena era una deshonra para cualquier maestre. Xhondo tuvo que repetirlo tres veces antes de que Quhuru Mo lo aceptara. Cuando cerraron el trato, Sam ya no tenía botas, prendas negras ni ropa interior, ni tampoco el cuerno roto que había encontrado Jon Nieve en el Puño de los Primeros Hombres." (AFFC, Samwell 4, 13th paragraph)

It says something like "When Sam closed the deal he didn't have boots anymore (...) neither the broken horn that Jon Snow had found". So he doesn't have it, unless this is a huge print/translation mistake.

So if the horn is not with Sam now, how could it join back to the story again?

Wow, that was a horrible translation in the Spanish version! What a cruel thing to do in a book like this... I wonder what more the translator got wrong.

The English version says:

By the time the dealing was done, Sam was down to his boots and blacks and smallclothes, and the broken horn Jon Snow had found on the Fist of First men.

That means that those things were the ONLY things he had left after the deal with Quhuru Mo on Cinnamon Wind

[Shaggydog Stark]

Guys, I remembered the song the wildlings sing of Giants, so I thought I would post it here to try and find clues together:

The song is called "The Last of the Giants"

Ooooooh, I am the last of the giants, my people are gone from the earth.

The last of the great mountain giants, who ruled all the world at my birth,

Oh, the smallfolk have stole my forests, they've stolen my rivers and hills.

And they've built a great wall through my valleys, and fished all the fish from my rills,

In stone halls they burn their great fires, in stone halls they forge their sharp spears.

Whilst I walk alone in the mountains, with no true companion but tears.

They hunt me with dogs in the daylight, they hunt me with torches by night.

For these men who are small can never stand tall, whilst giants still walk in the light.

Ooooooh, I am the LAST of the giants, so learn well the words of my song.

For when I am gone the singing will fade, and the silence last long and long.

Okay, the fourth line definitely is referring to the Wall, which the giants don't like so I think the giants will bring down the Wall when the horn is blown.

Any other clues?

[Eyron]

Good! I love this song. It is very sad.

"The last of the great mountain giants"

I just had a chill...

Other giants you say?

Edit: typo

[Ignacia]

Wow, that was a horrible translation in the Spanish version! What a cruel thing to do in a book like this... I wonder what more the translator got wrong.

The English version says:

That means that those things were the ONLY things he had left after the deal with Quhuru Mo on Cinnamon Wind

Then it was BIG mistake! Thank you for the correction! This actually changes a lot, they will probably have to correct it for future editions once the horn reappears.

[Eyron]

"For when I am gone the singing will fade, and the silence will last long and long"

So the giants could be essential for the CotF, the singers of the earth, somehow, they are part of the same pre-First Men culture.

And when the singing stops, there will be silence. But what will that imply? Something bad I think.

[fassreiter]

Ah, that song... :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:

[fassreiter]

Right: the 'great mountain giants' - there you go. The dragons grew smaller and smaller over the generations, maybe the same happened with the giants. But the Horn will awake those that once ruled the earth... and enslave humanity - ha! :D

[Eyron]

Right: the 'great mountain giants' - there you go. The dragons grew smaller and smaller over the generations, maybe the same happened with the giants. But the Horn will awake those that once ruled the earth... and enslave humanity - ha! :D

ha ha!

You will sleep well tonight I think :lol:

I will enjoy the giant giants to come - it's canon now

If GRRM does not give us more giants he miswrote by accident

[Shaggydog Stark]

Right: the 'great mountain giants' - there you go. The dragons grew smaller and smaller over the generations, maybe the same happened with the giants. But the Horn will awake those that once ruled the earth... and enslave humanity - ha! :D

:lol:

@ Eira and fassreiter....excellent observations about the mountain giants and singers. About the singing, could it be that were the giants to die out completely then the world would end? That would mean that the horn is really necessary at the end even if it does destroy the Wall.