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Locuna

Do you wish that Jon had left The Wall in AGoT?

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I've just rewatched the GoT TV series and in the finale it reminded me that Jon nearly left The Wall to join Robb. It got me thinking that Jon's story line would have been much more interesting if he had joined Robb. Perhaps the story beyond the wall could have been told solely through Samwell Tarly.

I've found Jon's chapters to be the hardest to read through, I had very little interest in the Wildlings and his love affair compared to Robb and the Lannister's war.

Without giving too much away, bearing in mind that I've got about 200 pages left of ASoS left (Jon is about to go into the lift to the top of the wall where supposedly Mance Rayder is attacking), any hints as to whether Jon ever leaves The Wall?

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um... your question is impossible to answer without drowning in spoilers... as its a massive development for the chara as well (and we're still all arguing ourselves stupid over something that happens to him in Dance with Dragons)

and IF he had joined Robb, things wouldn't really get too far. Starks holding up honor and all, Jon would simply lose his pretty lil emo-boy head for being a Wall deserter. If he doesn't, Cat would make sure to strangle him in his sleep, plus the Robb/Theon dynamic would get all shot to hell as well!

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Chise is correct. It is very difficult to give a non-spoilerish answer to a question such as yours.

I don't particularly like that Jon interacts so little with his siblings and other POV characters, but it would take a major justification to take him South of the Wall for any length of time.

I'll try to give you some general indications, however. Read any or all of them as you see fit.

Will Jon's plot remain centered on the Wall during the rest of ASOS?

Yes.

Will his plots expand and interact more with those of other characters who are not wildlings or Night Watch members?

Yes, to a degree.

Will Jon find a way around his Night's Watch vows so that he can participate in not-Wall-centered plots?

I'm not telling yet, other than to say that the question will be presented soon enough, still in ASOS.

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For reasons which will become clear depending on how far into ASOS you've read, no, I'm very glad that he stayed on the wall.

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Me too. It's much more of a natural fit for him then joining Robb. I thought Jon's chapters were quite interesting for his character development and change. I think if he had joined Robb, he wouldn't have experienced as much growth as his has. Plus, his story takes an interesting turn at the end of the book.

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Yes. Then he'd have been dead soon(deserters of the NW are executed as a matter of course, even Robb would've done it) and would've bored me no more.

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I like what's happening at the Wall around Jon, but I just can't stand his PoV. He just comes off as angsty and whiny.

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Thanks for the replies,

Janos Slynt has just sent Jon to be hanged, I'm actually looking forward to his next chapter to see how he gets himself out of this one.

However, a quick question about Janos. After carefully reading his wiki page I'd realised I'd forgotten his story, but I'm still unsure on some of it. Firstly, how did the son of a butcher rise to be Commander of the City Watch? Also, why did Tyrion strip him of his titles? Did Tyrion just not trust him or want him on the small council? And if so why not?

Another quick question: Who at this point in the book is 'Lord' of Harrenhal? (I think it's Roose Bolton? Or did he leave it with Vargo Hoat??) I don't understand how so many people have come to have that title, I think remember reading somewhere it was an 'empty' title...

If you can clear any of this up for me I'd be grateful!

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However, a quick question about Janos. After carefully reading his wiki page I'd realised I'd forgotten his story, but I'm still unsure on some of it. Firstly, how did the son of a butcher rise to be Commander of the City Watch? Also, why did Tyrion strip him of his titles? Did Tyrion just not trust him or want him on the small council? And if so why not?

answering spoilers with spoilers, hoorah!

He got a great promotion to Commander after the previous guy died. before that he was Captain of something .. (one of the Gates?)

Tyrion was doing some "house cleaning" of all sorts of dangerous people. Seeing how Janos did nothing but take bribes from all directions and his loyalties weren't exactly existing outside of gold (first he swears his sword to Ned, then grabs the cash from Littlefinger and helps the Ned capture plot)., he clearly was just the kind of dangerous snake Tyrion wanted faaar and away from King's Landing .. and all the other schemers: Cersei, Varys & LF

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Im not get into too much hear cus i don't want to put any spoilers not even with tags. Jon's story in my opinion throughout all five books is not only the most interesting, but the one that in the end will have the most impact on the future of Westeros. Jon staying at the Wall was exactly where he needed to be, going with Robb would not have been a good thing for Jons character growth. He would always would have just been the bastard brother and Watch deserter of the King. Whereas staying with the Watch has turned him into............. won't say anything else so i don't spoil anything :)

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I fear if John went with Robb he would ether be killed as a deserter, or if Robb forgives him Jon would have met the same fate as Robb did in the RW

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About Harrenhal, you may want to check the Wiki article:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Harrenhal#From_1_AL_till_298_AL

There are (as of now) no true spoilers in the timeline from 1 to 298 AL, which gives some useful context for understanding its reputation.

I may add that Harrenhal is too big and too vulnerably placed to be easy to keep. In times such as the War of Five Kings, when armed groups are likely to try and take it often, it is only natural for it to be taken time and again by various parties, until and unless someone brings a force big enough to keep the whole perimeter safe.

Not coincidentally, parts of the Trident that aren't too far from Harrenhal have also been taken and taken back many times during that conflict. Armies can't easily avoid happening through the Trident, and Harrenhal is at one time too big and too close to be ignored and yet also too big to be kept for long.

So all sides will want to have it, but not to invest lots of effort at keeping it - because it is essentially guaranteed to be taken over back and forth repeatedly until the conflict around it settles down.

You asked:

Who at this point in the book is 'Lord' of Harrenhal? (I think it's Roose Bolton? Or did he leave it with Vargo Hoat??)

Truth is, one has little to go by to know for sure (as you doubtlessly noticed already, since a certain character is doing an incorrect claim about the matter). Consecutive chapters from POVs that aren't communicating directly often can and often will be apart in time as well as space. But I can tell you that the speculation that you offer in your question has indeed turned true. If you tell me which edition you are reading I can probably give you a fairly close page or position number for the reference. On the four-book Kindle bundle, try position 44750.

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Thanks again for the great replies - I'm on page 442 of the UK Edition, Blood and Gold (I believe it's Jaime IX). I have a few days to wait until my copy of AFfC arrives (only ordered it today) so I guess I'll finish it in about 2 more nights of reading.

My interest in Jon has been renewed and I'm for once eagerly anticipating his chapters!

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Oh yes, A Storm of Swords has been divided into two volumes in some UK printings. You are reading the second volume.

Let's see... including the Prologue and the Epilogue, ASOS (undivided) has a total of 82 chapters. The text I direct you to is in Chapter 37 (Jaime), so it is very likely the last Jaime chapter of the first half of your edition of ASOS. It comes right after a Davos chapter and right before a Tyrion chapter.

In the Kindle, that chapter uses positions 44520 to 44808, so you will see that the reference comes late in Jaime's chapter. Look for a certain character "(...) (stabbing) a chunk of meat with the point of (his) dagger" and then see what he says immediately after.

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