The GRRumbler Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I always tought Dumbledore was gay and Grindlewald's story confirmed it to me, funny thing is, i never realized the Renly/Loras affair until Stannis meeting with him and the joke about Maergery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Interesting:God, rid me of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Not sure what that has to do with scifi/fantasy fiction, but, yes, interesting is one word.This may suprise a few of you, but I am actually pro gay rights/gay marriage/what-the-heck-ever. Hell I had a friend in high school who had a sex change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well....depends on your defintion of fiction. ;-)(Seriously, I just didn't think it warranted a whole new thread.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh no it probably didn't. I'm just feeling confrontational lately. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Interesting:God, rid me of GodWell. Whatever helps people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 While I was being a little snarky about the fictional, IMO, nature of the Bible, I do suspect this is a big problem.We've had the same issue in Hindu circles, which is a bit frightening/disgusting as being gay/lesbian really has nothing to do with Hinduism and if anything there is at minimum some tacit support for LGBT persons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Religion can be some scary, scary shit.See Orson Scott Card. Or hell, the nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverareMenPedants Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Religion can be some scary, scary shit.See Orson Scott Card. Or hell, the nazis.Nazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galleymac Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Any dogma, fanaticism, or over-idealism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I feel like I should note the divinity of Jesus (not to mention Buddha and some other figures) I leave as an open question as I do with the veracity of the Gospels.Anywho, to bring this shit back on topic here's an article about Chosen Ones and the lack of LGBT (as well as PoC) ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I feel like I should note the divinity of Jesus (not to mention Buddha and some other figures) I leave as an open question as I do with the veracity of the Gospels.Anywho, to bring this shit back on topic here's an article about Chosen Ones and the lack of LGBT (as well as PoC) ones.I would say that i think the genre is moving away, for the most part, from the chosen one trope. Abercrombie is definitely a deconstruction of this in the First Law, all other problems you and some others have had aside. Though it would be interesting enough to see a variation on the theme. I was suddenly struck by the chosen one being a sixty-eight year old with bad knees from all his years of fighting and a case of gout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Two positions that I thought were interesting. (eta: missing first link)Bacigalupi on LGBT teens in dystopian novels:For me, the real objective in writing a dystopia about being gay would be to rattle a shockingly complacent straight readership into something approaching empathy. A really effective dystopia takes the reader to a distorted future, so that when they close the book, they see their own world, in a new light. 1984 was a wild distortion, but it was seeded with ideas we were missing in the present.So instead of writing a story about being gay, create one about being straight. Create a world where heterosexuality is a shocking desire.Charles Coleman Finlay did this in his poignant short story “Pervert.” For a heterosexual reader, the experience is an overwhelming sense of loneliness as the straight character navigates a world where no one can imagine why he would “choose” a perversion like heterosexuality. The story resonates because it twists our present norms and reflects them back at us. It's painful and saddening, and mightily effective because at last, you, the “normal” reader, can experience a society that reviles you, simply for your basic nature.Alex McFarlane has an interesting response.If Western civilisation collapses and we live in a horrible dystopia, whether suppressed by a new (even more) totalitarian regime or scavenging on the remnants of our society, gay people will be there. Gay people will be forced to fight in the Hunger Games. Gay people will have monitors installed in their homes a la 1984. Gay people will be breaking up ships for scavenge alongside the straight protagonist of Bacigalupi’s own Western-set dystopia, Ship Breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambyr Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Two positions that I thought were interesting. (eta: missing first link)Bacigalupi on LGBT teens in dystopian novels:For me, the real objective in writing a dystopia about being gay would be to rattle a shockingly complacent straight readership into something approaching empathy.As a non-straight reader of Bacigalupi's novels, this sentence makes me pretty uncomfortable. I'd like to think I'm also part of the targeted readership for what he writes. But no. . ."the real objective . . . [is the] straight readership." So why am I bothering to buy books and read along, again?And honestly, in readers who are already homophobic, I think "a world where heterosexuality is a shocking desire" is less likely to awaken empathy and more likely to feed their concern that this is exactly what the "gay agenda" is pushing for.It's just a weird essay all around. And surprising, from Bacigalupi, who I thought did a really great job writing lesbians-who-just-happened-to-be-lesbians-and-weren't-there-to-make-a-point into Windup Girl. (By which I mean Lieutenant Kanya and her partner.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Haven't read Wind Up Girl - I'll note that McFarlane's response aligns with yours."And honestly, in readers who are already homophobic, I think "a world where heterosexuality is a shocking desire" is less likely to awaken empathy and more likely to feed their concern that this is exactly what the "gay agenda" is pushing for."This is a (edit: good) point I hadn't even considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 It's rather the Bakker attitude, no? "I'm not sexist/racist/homophobic, i'm just writing things that sort of are* to reflect to the reader how sexist/homophobic/racist YOU ARE! I'm actually doing everyone a favour!" It's agendas all over again. Just write people like they're people, and then we'll talk. *I think a world of gay people oppressing those poor lonely straight people is a bit problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarius Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Just catching up on this old thread --I read Swordspoint a few days go, so it's on my brain. What do other readers think of Kushner's depictions of gay characters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I thought the way it was written in Swordspoint was wonderful. People were just gay. Because thats how they were.Bacigalupi scares the shit out of me and I've never read any of his books, nor to I plan to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 *I think a world of gay people oppressing those poor lonely straight people is a bit problematic.Not only might it be problematic if not done well, but to me it seems like a bit of a cliche. This certainly has been a "thought experiment" I've seen proposed for several decades. There have even been films based on it as well as written stories. "Almost Normal" is one example:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0466669/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Haldeman covered it decades ago in "The Forever War". The main character survives so long, in a war where ftl means losing decades or more (ie, fast forwarding), that Mandala ends up being the sole "queer" in his command. By queer, he's straight.The Liavek series of anthologies, edited by Will Shetterly, handled a lot of interesting themes, like sexuality and suicide, pretty well as I recall, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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