Does Roose Bolton even care?

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Yes, if Roose wanted to move against Ramsey, he could have done so a long time a go and could still do so now. He doesn't want to, and I'm under the impression though that he wouldn't do so even if his life depended on it. Which it very well may.

[Mulled Wino]

The irony is that he thinks Ramsay's blood is tainted by his bastardy, when in all likelihood, it is Roose's "bad blood" that Ramsay inherited.

I find it interesting that Roose is the cold, bloodless sociopath, while Ramsay is the wild, crazed killer. We get these two archetypes with the Starks as well, with Jon as the cold one, and Rickon as the wild one. (Not saying Jon is Roose or Rickon is Ramsay - just that they occupy the same ends of the character spectrum, imho.)

Ramsay is a gift from the psycho gods for Roose. Perfect catspaw to do his bidding if he can control him.

It seems he can't though. Roose should have nixed all the public displays going on in Ramsay's chambers with fake Arya immediately. Big time blunder on his part. Roose has plenty of spies on Ramsay but what good will that do if Ramsay keeps unravelling everything Roose is working towards?

Roose is going to have to make a major play soon. He lost him informers amongst Stannis, who is laying a trap for the Freys, with the White Harbor men in the field as well, they Freys are going to get massacred. Roose will probably try and starve Stannis and the Manderlys out, but Ramsay will insust on blood. It will he interesting to see who wins that power skirmish.

[Dimadick]

Reading the books I got the impression that, above all else, Roose Bolton is very afraid of Ramsey.

and everything else flows from that...

I am not sure if he is afraid of his son. But he certainly does not trust Ramsay and is cautious about assassination attempts from him. Remember the meeting in the vicinity of Moat Cailin? Ramsay rashes to greet his "father". Actually a decoy wearing Roose's armor. Only when Roose makes sure that Ramsay is not attacking, does the real deal come out from an enclosed wagon. "Just caution", says Roose. Cautious of Ramsay, no doubt.

[Babeldygob]

I think Roose was waiting for 'Arya' to have a son. After that he could safely kill of Ramsey. Now that it seems that that is not going to happen, he won't kill off Ramsey until he has heirs of his own and they get 'Arya' back.

[LordDolorousEdd]

I don't believe that revenge on ramsay is all that motivates roose it may be part but by no means all. I think he has something up his sleeve but no clue what. I am confident that he will sacrifice ramsay at some point.

[Ladyfaithrose]

I wonder if Roose is an "other". He does not seem to eat while at Harranhall and his blue eyes are well described.

His lack of emotions and concern could be be use he is an other. There is a part in the book where he told his true born son to stay away from Ramsay. Another part describes him worrying about what he was going to do with his bastard son.

His not eating and emotionless began at Harranhall.

[bemused]

??? Roose eats..Lady Dustin points out to Theon ,at the wedding feast , that Roose does not eat until he sees that Manderly has eaten of the dish first , implying that he thinks Manderly might try to poison him.

He was emotionless long before Harrenhall. It just that Harrenhall is the first place we see the character in any depth. You may have been reading some crackpottery.

[Lord Manwoody]

You win or you die in the game Roose is playing, and I absolutely believe he's still playing the game. He has a plan. Whether it works out for him remains to be seen.

[Maizel]

If we analyze Roose's actions in terms of personal greed, I think there are plenty of inconsistencies. Roose would have to be delusional about what he can accomplish in the North and what value Ramsay actually gives House Bolton, to justify Roose's actions as having been taken to genuinely benefit Roose and House Bolton. But if we analyze Roose's actions in terms of revenge for Domeric, I think Roose's actions suddenly make a lot more sense. Why he's unconcerned about Manderly's betrayal. Why he takes no steps to locate the Stark boys. Why he insists on a wedding in Winterfell, a place with a habit of swallowing pretenders to Stark power whole. Why he has Ramsay legitimized when he knows Ramsay has no hope of ever truly succeeding him. I think Roose isn't trying to build up House Bolton, he's sacrificing it, all to avenge Domeric.

Good post, and an interesting idea.

I think this would be my favourite scenario out of those offered in the thread so far.

[DurararaFTW]

Roose is not greedy or protective of his family name. He's just cautious with risking his own life. He didn't want to be branded traitor by Robb or sent to the Wall by any King, so he joined the war on Robbs side. He didwhat he was required in baiting Tywin then pulling back, then moving out to be capture Harrenhal when Tywin marched. War went quite badly so Roose turned cloak and took steps to remove Robb, Greatjon, Catelyn, Glover and his other enemies in the North. He doesn't want the curse of kinslayer bestowed on him so he doesn't bother to kill his bastardson, he settles him in Winterfell so keep his enemies preoccupied so he can return to Dreadfort. This is simply where caution as driven him.

[bemused]

Yes, I think Roose is still playing the game . I think all that business about not living long and being so uncaring if Ramsay should kill his offspring with Walda was all just for Ramsay's consumption via Theon.

Roose wants to rule the North and would get rid of Ramsay as soon as he's no longer useful.

ETA : I should say set it up so someone gets rid of Ramsay for him..keeping his hands clean.

[theriveryeti]

Well . . . the North Remembers. This gets repeated on and on for the other Lords of the North, so why not Roose Bolton as well? I'm genuinely starting to wonder if everything Roose has done hasn't been driven by greed for power, but rather, has all been part of a plan for revenge against Ramsay. Ramsay murdered Domeric, Roose's son and heir and the great hope of House Bolton. And the lords of the North don't just forget things like that. Roose would have Theon (and by extension, Ramsay) believe that Roose won't seek vengeance here, that Roose actually wants to reward, ennoble, and enrich Ramsay. (And he'd have the Lannisters and Freys believe that his fellow Lords of the North have been dealt with and they can rest easy.)

But maybe Roose isn't stupid enough to think House Bolton could actually benefit from betraying the Starks. He seems strangely unconcerned by the glaringly obvious fact that pretty much everyone in the North is just waiting to attack him, and he feels no need to do anything to find the two male Starks hanging out somewhere in the North, putting his House's future power in jeopardy. Perhaps everything Roose has done since ACOK has actually been part of his scheme for revenge against Ramsay for Domeric's murder? Perhaps he's perfectly willing to sacrifice his own life and the future of his House in order to avenge Domeric's murder?

If you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. The more you have, the more you have to lose; a lord's (or a King's) fall is longer and harder than a peasant's fall. When Ramsay murdered Domeric, Roose could have just had Ramsay killed. If he just wanted to avoid being a kinslayer, he could have turned Ramsay over to Ned Stark for punishment/execution. But that's only if all he wanted was Ramsay's life. And that's if he felt such an action truly avenged Domeric. At that point, Ramsay was nothing. A lowly bastard, no power, no status, no wealth, no lands, just a little mill with his mother and Reek. So what does Roose do? He puts Ramsay on the path to power. He takes him in at the Dreadfort, gives him servants, prestige. He gives Ramsay Roose's sworn men, and Ramsay uses what Roose has given him to take the Hornwood and sack Winterfell. And Roose marries Walda before he gets Ramsay legitimized---if all he needed was an heir, why get Ramsay legitimized at all, given that new half-Frey heirs were pretty certain? Why get an order of legitimization from the Iron Throne, also known as that institution that his fellow Lords of the North no longer respect (and whose decrees won't be considered binding by the Umbers, Manderlys, Mormonts, etc.)? Perhaps Roose really did think a savage fool was a better heir than a child. Or perhaps making Ramsay think he's no longer considered a bastard is simply part of Roose's plan to build Ramsay up before tearing him down.

And originally, all Ramsay could possibly hope to have had was the Dreadfort and the Hornwood. By betraying Robb Stark, Roose can pretend that Ramsay is now in a position to one day hold the entire North. And the more Ramsay thinks he can have, the more he has to lose. One day, Ramsay will now legitimately be considered a true Bolton and will control the Dreadfort, the Hornwood, and Winterfell. One day, Ramsay will be Warden of the North. Or if Roose declares himself King, then one day Ramsay will one day be King in the North. Ramsay now thinks everything he's ever wanted is within his grasp. All he has to do is wait for an opportune moment to do away with Roose, and Ramsay's dreams will all come true.

But Roose isn't stupid. I think he knew all along that the North would never bow to the Boltons. And he definitely knows the North will never bow to Ramsay. Ramsay is stupid, foolish, and vicious. He wouldn't last a day without Roose's support, and Roose knows that. But if Roose's true goal is revenge against Ramsay, then the whole point might be that Ramsay has no idea the North won't bow to a Bolton, let alone him, and Ramsay has no idea he doesn't have the skills or status to achieve what he wants. Once, Ramsay thought he'd be stuck as a lowly bastard at his mother's mill. Now, as a result of Roose's actions, Ramsay thinks he can have power over the entire North, possibly even one day becoming King in the North (if Theon actually had told Ramsay about Roose's little plan there, and funneling info to Ramsay seems like the most logical reason for Roose's musings to Theon there). Ramsay thinks he can have ultimate wealth, power, and status---that he can escape being born a bastard, that he can have the kind of power and prestige that even Domeric could never have had.

And that's the key. By dangling all of this in front of Ramsay, Roose ensures that Ramsay's inevitable destruction will be far more crushing, far more absolute, then if he'd just arranged a hanging at Ramsay's mother's mill years ago. Now, Roose can destroy more than Ramsay's life---he can obliterate all of Ramsay's hopes, dreams, and pride. By giving him everything, Roose can ensure that Ramsay now loses everything. Roose has put Ramsay in Winterfell, surrounded him by enemies on all sides, given him no actual means of defeating any of them . . . and Roose is now standing off to the side, giving him just as much rope as he needs to hang himself.

If we analyze Roose's actions in terms of personal greed, I think there are plenty of inconsistencies. Roose would have to be delusional about what he can accomplish in the North and what value Ramsay actually gives House Bolton, to justify Roose's actions as having been taken to genuinely benefit Roose and House Bolton. But if we analyze Roose's actions in terms of revenge for Domeric, I think Roose's actions suddenly make a lot more sense. Why he's unconcerned about Manderly's betrayal. Why he takes no steps to locate the Stark boys. Why he insists on a wedding in Winterfell, a place with a habit of swallowing pretenders to Stark power whole. Why he has Ramsay legitimized when he knows Ramsay has no hope of ever truly succeeding him. I think Roose isn't trying to build up House Bolton, he's sacrificing it, all to avenge Domeric.

I'm not sure if this is true, but if you wrote a book, I'd read it...!

[theriveryeti]

I wonder if Roose is an "other". He does not seem to eat while at Harranhall and his blue eyes are well described.

His lack of emotions and concern could be be use he is an other. There is a part in the book where he told his true born son to stay away from Ramsay. Another part describes him worrying about what he was going to do with his bastard son.

His not eating and emotionless began at Harranhall.

I've come to believe the Bolton's are the offspring of the Night's King and his Other bride (thanks, Heresy)!

[Ramsay B.]

He has to have something up his sleeve or know something we don't I would assume. His position now is pretty grim. Maybe he doesn't care?

[Woel]

If we analyze Roose's actions in terms of personal greed, I think there are plenty of inconsistencies. Roose would have to be delusional about what he can accomplish in the North and what value Ramsay actually gives House Bolton, to justify Roose's actions as having been taken to genuinely benefit Roose and House Bolton. But if we analyze Roose's actions in terms of revenge for Domeric, I think Roose's actions suddenly make a lot more sense. Why he's unconcerned about Manderly's betrayal. Why he takes no steps to locate the Stark boys. Why he insists on a wedding in Winterfell, a place with a habit of swallowing pretenders to Stark power whole. Why he has Ramsay legitimized when he knows Ramsay has no hope of ever truly succeeding him. I think Roose isn't trying to build up House Bolton, he's sacrificing it, all to avenge Domeric.

Your theory really convinced me, and I think it makes more sense than the whole "I wanna rule the North and be powerful" interpretation of Roose's character and his actions. After all, why would you have your sadistic bastard legitimized if you want to establish your House as the ruling, perhaps even royal, House of the North?

I also think this could possibly tie into the theorized link between House Bolton and the Others; perhaps Roose is setting up his bastard son as a sacrifice to the Others, à la Craster?