vogorroswhore Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The Others seem alien because they are, in fact, from outer space, having arrived via Red Comets (aka spaceships). Records of previous comets/transports have been lost or destroyed, perhaps by the Maesters, whom we are told by Archmaester Marwyn are responsible for killing off the last known dragons (the "Fire" to the Others' "Ice").Ha--that is awesome. Then Samwell Tarly can discover that the Citadel is the Westerosi equivalent of Area 51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Maybe the Others are more like a cult. I sa only "Crasters sons". Maybe they razzed by them to become one of them. They are like depraved wizards ore creatures of the children of the forest wich want to protect the land of their masters or the old gods from the Andals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val the Wildling Princess Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Someone has to be making all the wights. And wights still count as part of the Others force. You do agree that the wights are bent to the Others' will? That everyone not colluding with the Others on the other side of the Wall is being slaughtered? It really seemed so to me.Yes, they make the wights, or so it seems, i never denied that. But it's not true that everyone north of the Wall is being slaughtered. Craster and his daugthers/wives managed to survive pretty well, and as Eira pointed a few posts above, Tormund said that the WW only took the people that was left behind from the group, they didn't attack the wildlings or tried to stop them to get past the Wall, maybe cause what they want is them to go away. Anyway, at this point I think we don't have enough information to afirm that they are pure evil or they are not. So for me, the WW remain like the Schrodinger's cat, that is dead and alive till we open the box, same with the WW, they are evil and they are not till GRRM decides to open the box for us :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pollo Loco Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well, we know the others have some honor (only one attacked royce in the prologue aka single combat), they have some form of intelligence (They let Will survive to spread the word of their reemergence, and they placed the wights to infiltrate the wall and kill the LC), and they can make deals (Craster). So i think we can assume they're not a mindless foreign race that only wants to destroy humanity and the cotf because their evil. I think they are just enemies of the humans the cotf, whether they are "evil" depends on your perspective (what side your on). As far as we know they might have valid grievances against the coft and humanity and want revenge for a past wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I wonder if they reproduce like normal living beings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drinking Cersei's Tears Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I wonder if they reproduce like normal living beings...Probably, if you believe Old Nan's story about Night's King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 So for me, the WW remain like the Schrodinger's cat, that is dead and alive till we open the box, same with the WW, they are evil and they are not till GRRM decides to open the box for us :DHar! Schrödinger's Other cat... :DHeh heh, problem is, they Others are likely both dead and alive when they go into the box, and when they come out... Depends on your definition of death and life. :uhoh:As Yoren tells Robb and Bran, things are different beyond the Wall, "but up past the Wall, who's to say? Up there a man can't always tell what's alive and what's dead..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falrinn Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Har! Schrödinger's Other cat... :DHeh heh, problem is, they Others are likely both dead and alive when they go into the box, and when they come out... Depends on your definition of death and life. :uhoh:As Yoren tells Robb and Bran, things are different beyond the Wall, "but up past the Wall, who's to say? Up there a man can't always tell what's alive and what's dead..."I see no reason to assume the Others themselves aren't alive. Admittedly magic itself is probably part of their biology, so nonetheless they don't follow the same rules as normal living things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val the Wildling Princess Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Har! Schrödinger's Other cat... :DHeh heh, problem is, they Others are likely both dead and alive when they go into the box, and when they come out... Depends on your definition of death and life. :uhoh:As Yoren tells Robb and Bran, things are different beyond the Wall, "but up past the Wall, who's to say? Up there a man can't always tell what's alive and what's dead..."haha I was just using the cat as a comparison since as of now, I cannot decide if they are evil or not, so they are both at the same time for me till the box is open :D but that quote from Yoren is interesting, uhm, didn't remember that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfyre Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Regarding Yoren's quote, I believe he might be referring to the wights, not the White Walkers.But who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I see no reason to assume the Others themselves aren't alive. Admittedly magic itself is probably part of their biology, so nonetheless they don't follow the same rules as normal living things.I did write that they could be both dead and alive... Depending on your definition. So why are you assuming I think they are dead, any more than I think they are alive?I have argued that the white walkers are sort of human for a while now, but I am not sure I consider them to be alive. The thing is, they are made of ice, their flesh dissolve into a white mist, their bones are mady of crystal-like ice, they have some kind of blue liquid for blood, and they melt to water when they die. But only obsidian kills them, are they otherwise immortal? So what is our definition on being alive? Is a consciousness enough? Say would conscious spirits, or ghosts, be considered being alive? Where do we draw the line?I think one has to be able to die a natural death to be considered alive, be mortal. After that you are something else, a spirit, perhaps taking form, but still not alive. If we don't need to die, we are not alive either, since I think life and death are two sides of the same thing and one is not possible without the other. Melisandre for example, it seems she is not alive according to me, her body is shut down and run on fire to keep her moving, she doesn't eat or sleep. I think the Others are the same.I think they could be ghosts, human once but not quite human anymore, not alive per se. The bones of the dead could be magically resurrected and then somehow pull in material (ice) to make a new body. Or they could be humans that magically altered themselves, like Melisandre and Moquorro has done with fire magic.haha I was just using the cat as a comparison since as of now, I cannot decide if they are evil or not, so they are both at the same time for me till the box is open :D but that quote from Yoren is interesting, uhm, didn't remember that at all.Ah I understood, I was just joking. I thought Schrödinger's cat was a very fitting :)LadyBlackfyre, About Yoren, the text didn't reveal if he was talking specifically about either wights or WWs. He was just responding to Robb screaming that Benjen was not dead.He could know about Craster's sacrifices to the Others and know something of what the Others are. Mormont and all the rangers knew about the sacrifices, Mormont told Jon that up here beyond the Wall the people had other gods that must be pleased too, not just the Old gods (paraphrasing).Yoren seems to be informed on what the rangers have heard from the wildlings about at least wights, otherwise how would he even know about the wights at that point, so he could be informed on the Others too. He was not talking of what happened 8000 years ago but what happens beyond the Wall to this day. So it's not clear what he was talking about, though I agree it seems more like it would fit the wights, since we know that they are resurrected dead and we the readers don't know what the Others are. He could have heard things about the Others that we have not though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Bronn l Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 They ride giant Spiders. Thats evil enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armidil0 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 They ride giant Spiders. Thats evil enough for me. That's BA enough for me. All Hail the Others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Bronn l Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 That's BA enough for me. All Hail the Others!I for one welcome our creepy new overlords.......and their giant spiders. :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I for one welcome our creepy new overlords.......and their giant spiders. :bowdown:Ewwwww Spiders!!!! KILLITKILLITKILLITWITHFIRE! (biggest possible redemption arc for Dany in my book: letting her dragons burn ice spiders)I swear to the Old Gods and the New, and the Drowned God and R'hllor, if Martin writes anything slightly resembling spiders I will....probably wet myself and die XD. Arachnophobia FTW.NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm also dreading that ice spiders will appear... :stillsick: Don't like it, don't like it at all... Creepy deathmachines, that can CLIMB the Wall in a few seconds perhaps... Better start piling up those barrels again.We have not seen them yet though, so there is hope! It's probably just a vicious rumour... right? :uhoh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm also dreading that ice spiders will appear... :stillsick: Don't like it, don't like it at all... Creepy deathmachines, that can CLIMB the Wall in a few seconds perhaps... Better start piling up those barrels again.We have not seen them yet though, so there is hope! It's probably just a vicious rumour... right? :uhoh:Nah ... the ice spiders will probably show up ... I haven't read a lot of fantasy ... but in practical every book there were spiders ... shelobs, potterspiders ... I suppose they are mandatory. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Nah ... the ice spiders will probably show up ... I haven't read a lot of fantasy ... but in practical every book there were spiders ... shelobs, potterspiders ... I suppose they are mandatory. :devil: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: Nightmares-a-coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykos Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If it helps you might call them ice crabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyron Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 That does help Lykos! Yay! I can continue reading the books :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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