Verboten Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QyburnJaimeTyrionRamsayRoose (you cunning old fox :wuv: )LittlefingerTywinOh and Ned for being so ridiculously stupid and leading to all of the shit that happens in the later books, including teaching Robb his ridiculous sense of honour. If Robb had listened to Catelyn he would have won his seat in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Oberyn_ Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Wow, thats honestly incredibly racist. Just some fucking deseased desert filth, they're not important at all.And loyal to her family? Haha. How come they only decided to help her out once she had an army and dragons? Real good friends they were...And Doran makes it pretty clear to Arianne they don't have 50000 spears, that was just a gross overstatementYes i hate a group of imaginary people. I dont see many people showing love to the iron born.The pact was made years before the dragons to put Viserys on the throne, so yes they were friends and partialy family too. And the 50000 spears might not be real but she did not know that so it makes no diference.Are we regarding the sex at Dany's wedding as an 'orgy' with willing participants or are the dancers that are taken by the Dothraki warriors raped? I just read that scene again this morining and I think it is unclear. I am fine with a good orgy don't get me wrong, even if it leads to drunken brawls and death...as long as everyone is involved by choice, that is. If the wedding dancers are 'property' then I have to put the Dothraki on par with the Iron Born.The wedding thing was consensual, the dancers were dothraki and not slaves. But wat they did to the lamb men was worst then the ironborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceAdam Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Joffrey, Ramsay, Freys and Theon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in the South Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes i hate a group of imaginary people. I dont see many people showing love to the iron born.The pact was made years before the dragons to put Viserys on the throne, so yes they were friends and partialy family too. And the 50000 spears might not be real but she did not know that so it makes no diference.The wedding thing was consensual, the dancers were dothraki and not slaves. But wat they did to the lamb men was worst then the ironbornProbably because they're a bunch of rapists/murderers? And yeah, I don't care if they're imaginary, to Dany they aren't, so using that as an excuse as to why she should have them is freaking idiotic.And, uh, guess what. Neither Dany nor Viserys made that pact. And after he had it made Doran didn't do anything to help/support them whatsoever their entire childhood. It's only when Dany is powerful that he even starts to cares. That's not friendship, that's called scheming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Sansa warged you into not realizing that she is a warg like all her siblings. That is how she makes people (like Tyrion) underestimate her. That evil, evil Sansa.Oh, George said all the Stark children of this generation were full Wargs. I thought they were like one shot Wargs and were only bonded to their wolves but no they can warg into just about anything. From the lips of the author straight to your ears. Fact, whether you like it or not. Maybe you will read a wee bit closer over the remainder of the series?Well, whenever GRRM decides to have Sansa warg into something other than the cook who makes lemon cakes, I will read her a wee be closer. If Bran can warg Hodor and Ayra can warg cats, it is quite obvious that they are more than "one shot wargs". Please show me where in five books has Sansa warged into anything? Oh, that's right, she HASN'T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aslerys Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 RamsayRooseMost of the Freys ( especially old Walder)LittlefingerJoffreyTywin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 If animals were meant to be above humans they would have learned how to walk upright and talk. Ned was right to kill Lady, as heartbreaking as it was, in order to protect his HUMAN daughter.. It was Sansa's fault for lying to stay in Joffrey's good graces.This is what I said? : I never put an animals life over a human one ever.Absolutely NOT!!!Read my threads, I'm tired of repeating my self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 This is what I said? : I never put an animals life over a human one ever.Absolutely NOT!!!Read my threads, I'm tired of repeating my self.I am reaffirming what you said. You did say that some people on this board might disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Oberyn_ Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Probably because they're a bunch of rapists/murderers? And yeah, I don't care if they're imaginary, to Dany they aren't, so using that as an excuse as to why she should have them is freaking idiotic.And, uh, guess what. Neither Dany nor Viserys made that pact. And after he had it made Doran didn't do anything to help/support them whatsoever their entire childhood. It's only when Dany is powerful that he even starts to cares. That's not friendship, that's called schemingLol i was making a point about the "racist" coment but anyway... Danys "love" for these people, between Astapor and the plale mare, has caused at least 100 deaths for every 1 that would have hapen at the hands of the slavers.And how stupid of Doran not ask for the permision of a five yeard old. And maybe he should have sent them letters every day with a CC to Robert just in case his spys hapen to have the day off. And ofc Ilyrio would have put on the armor to lead the Dothraki himself against Roberts armies once Viserys and Dany made it back to Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Lord TarleyTywinRamsay BoltonWALDER FREYCersi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in the South Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Lol i was making a point about the "racist" coment but anyway... Danys "love" for these people, between Astapor and the plale mare, has caused at least 100 deaths for every 1 that would have hapen at the hands of the slavers.And how stupid of Doran not ask for the permision of a five yeard old. And maybe he should have sent them letters every day with a CC to Robert just in case his spys hapen to have the day off. And ofc Ilyrio would have put on the armor to lead the Dothraki himself against Roberts armies once Viserys and Dany made it back to Westeros./Insert arbitrary number that I have no conclusionable evidence to back up with. Whatever, that's not even the point.And no, I never said he had to do all of that, but the fact remains is that Doran DID NOTHING. Nada, zip, nilch. He let Dany get abused and sold to a barbarian and let her wander on and on without every once raising his hand to help, and only when she finally becomes something powerful does he actually care.Dany owes the Martells nothing. If you want to blame someone, blame Doran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Easy, of all the characters I can't forgive1. The fools who rebelled against Lord Old Bear and raped the youngins at Craster's Keep. Those hoodlums should be offered to the Drowned God or to R'hllor. Killing Commander Bear and raping the inbred youngins . . .2. Robb, for making so many mistakes, not thinking like a "Corleone." Robb Stark to me is the anti Michael Corleone, he is a young man given the power who did not understand the world he was tossed into while Michael did.3. Lord Eddard, for being so clumsy and impatient, he should have understood that the Lannisters were evil and wanted power and that Robert was no King. He should have gone back to Winterfell or never accepted the position in the first place. He was out of his element. Then to tell your enemy Queen Cersei your plans, that was beyond short sighted.4. Littlefinger . ."Only Cat" he toyed with Lysa's emotions and lusted after Sansa and Betrayed Ned. May the great White Walker take him . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Rider Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Roose Bolton is totally incapable of sympathy or empathy he is a rapist, opportunist, and a tyrannt. I don't see any redemption possible for him as he's as horrible as they come and has done just about everything possible to make his bastard son a real monster. Was Roose Bolton brutalized by his father who was brutalized by his before him turning him into such a horrible person? Probably, but at this point I think it's just better that someone puts down that how lineage and calls it a day. Ramsay Bolton is just as horrible and the damage done is beyond repair to him as well so it would be better if he did not produce heirs.Lord Walder Frey. I get that Lord Walder looks after his own and to hell with everyone else. He showed up late at the Battle of the Trident, but he had sworn fealty to King Aryes as well as Lord Tully. Lord Walder didn't have any dog in the fight either during Robert's Rebellion or the Battle of the Five Kings. The Twins of Frey seem pretty much self-sufficient and I'm not sure what major benefit or favor he's ever seen from the Tully's that would win his loyalty. The Starks break their contract with him after many of his men have fought for them in many cases died for them. I would have forgiven him for recalling his men at arms and joining the Lannisters or just staying out of the fight completely. However, he didn't do that he instead commits a horrible act that wasn't necessary. In short, he carried out his act of vengance too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Rider Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Lord TarleyTywinRamsay BoltonWALDER FREYCersiLord Tarly I think recognizes that his house's value to the Tyrells has always been their contribution on the battle field. I mean their family motto or words is "First in Battle." That doesn't leave a lot of room for an intellectual passive individual like Sam unfortunately. If Sam had been born to any other house I think the Lord would have just resigned himself to the fact that his son might not be a warrior, but could still be an effective leader as an intellectual. With House Tarly though you're either a warrior or you're nothing. Lord Taryl is a HORRIBLE Father and there is no doubt about that, but he's not just a Father he's a Lord responsible for a lot of people and so I get why he's so hard on Sam and why he did what he did even though I don't agree with it or like it. I would find it hard to believe that if he wasn't Lord he'd have no love for his own.Tywin does what it takes to win and in his word you're either winning or you end up with your head chopped off. Sure, he's self-serving and he's a horible father to Tyrion, but honestly if he had been King instead of Robert or Aryes the realm wouldn't be six million in debt and might be stronger as a whole. I think Tywin would actually made an excellent administrator, military leader, and would as far as Kings go be pretty fair. I think if it wasn't for his hard work to keep House Lannister at the top the Lannisters as a family might have vanished a couple of times. King Aryes definitely was jealous of Tywin and I think if Tywin hadn't made the Lannisters so strong Aryes might have decided to kill him, bannish him, or remove his family from power. I think when he was dismissed as Hand he was probably pretty nervous about his future and when Robert looked sure to win resolved to make the next King value his friendship and put his own family closer to the Iron Throne.Cersi is a product of her upbringing, her times (ie very male dominated world), and for all the horrible things she's done I can't see anything beyond the pale that she is directly responsible for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pollo Loco Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 /Insert arbitrary number that I have no conclusionable evidence to back up with. Whatever, that's not even the point.And no, I never said he had to do all of that, but the fact remains is that Doran DID NOTHING. Nada, zip, nilch. He let Dany get abused and sold to a barbarian and let her wander on and on without every once raising his hand to help, and only when she finally becomes something powerful does he actually care.Dany owes the Martells nothing. If you want to blame someone, blame DoranI partially agree with this, Dany doesn't owe the Martells anything, but i think Doran was just waiting for the right time. He wants revenge and presumably a Targ on the throne, but he's not willing to risk Dorne in a doomed rebellion. I think he was just waiting for the right time. He might have had very good reasons for not helping Dany when she was younger, he might not have known how dire their situation was or Viserys may have exaggerated how dire their situation was- they did hang out in that house with the red door for years.On topicJamie- I actually like his character and his chapters, but i can't forgive attempted murder of a 9 year old, especially when it results in said kid becoming crippled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Excluding the obvious psychos.... Jaime Lannister. Prances around like he's a changed man yet refuses to take responsibility for trying to murder Bran, freeing Tyrion, and banging Cersei (thus plunging the realm into war). At least Theon felt guilt over what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Mad Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Roose Bolten because he chose to be a traitor. All the slavers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melpomene Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 RamsayJoffreyGregor CleganeEuronVictarionCerseiRoose Bolton^Those ones are no brainers.Lord Walder Frey. Being one of the biggest manwhores, producing too many offspring that just proves as a backlash, screwing up the reputation of the family, and can't get out of my head that the poor 16 year old wife slept with him and got pregnant...Tyrion. But I am pretty sure I said large handfuls on reasons why towards this guy on this board so I'll take a break from that. But, as also mentioned, if he can change than I can forgive the guy versus the other characters.Randyll Tarly. I don't care if he is a fancy smancy military leader. He abused his child in the worst possible ways. He is an awful person. Sorry!The Slavers. Geez, what a very very very low view on the value of human life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melpomene Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 - Aaaand the double post - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I like all the characters and could see their pov when they make decisions even wrong ones i get where they are coming from.Only one i find that hard with is Ramsay Boltoni get why theon did what he did i actually support the frey's on there moves on the red wedding, and their tag team with bolton. Smart move for their houses anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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