Theory about Sansa's true importance to Littlefinger

[DragonSpawn]

:( Quite like the idea of a hero coming to rescue Sansa - we didn't get to see it while she was a captive in KL... Instead we had a fool and a man possibly more cruel and evil than the Lannisters rescuing her. That wasn't much of a pay-off... Robb Stark tried and failed... even Stannis tried and failed... would be quite nice to see a proper successful rescue although i'll admit Sansa fighting her own way out of this situation would be just as rewarding :)

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

:( Quite like the idea of a hero coming to rescue Sansa - we didn't get to see it while she was a captive in KL... Instead we had a fool and a man possibly more cruel and evil than the Lannisters rescuing her. That wasn't much of a pay-off... Robb Stark tried and failed... even Stannis tried and failed... would be quite nice to see a proper successful rescue although i'll admit Sansa fighting her own way out of this situation would be just as rewarding :)

THERE ARE NO HEROES. :bang:

But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. “Life is not a song, sweetling,” he’d told her. “You may learn that one day to your sorrow.” In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound’s voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. “Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants.”

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

:( Quite like the idea of a hero coming to rescue Sansa - we didn't get to see it while she was a captive in KL... Instead we had a fool and a man possibly more cruel and evil than the Lannisters rescuing her. That wasn't much of a pay-off... Robb Stark tried and failed... even Stannis tried and failed... would be quite nice to see a proper successful rescue although i'll admit Sansa fighting her own way out of this situation would be just as rewarding :)

Stannis wants to burn children alive. And plunged the realm into war, because he was to stubborn to make nice with his little brother, cost the lives of thousands. Robb was a utter fool, who refused to bend to common sense, and it ended up costing him his like and the lives of thousands of his north men. Not mention that of Sansa's mother. The Lannisters are not evil, there's something wrong with Joffrey and later in the series with Cersei, but there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Lord Tywin protected his people and kept the realm in peace for 20 years when he was hand of the King. Something Ned couldn't manage for 9 months. Nor is Petyr evil. The people of the Vale are safe and sound while war ravages Westeros. :bang: See, this is why people don't like Sansa, its like she's living on a different planet.

[DragonSpawn]

THERE ARE NO HEROES. :bang:

But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. “Life is not a song, sweetling,” he’d told her. “You may learn that one day to your sorrow.” In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound’s voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. “Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants.”

Nice quote: but sounds like Sansa has given up and could do with a good hero rescue! :)

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Nice quote: but sounds like Sansa has given up and could do with a good hero rescue! :)

And this is why we hate her. There aren't heroes. You're reading the wrong book! You should be reading Cinderella!

You know I mean? Its like in inexplicably this random 13 year old girl, has not 1, not 2, but 3 of the most subtle, competent and capable characters in all of Westeros offering advice, guidance, and protection. And still she refuses to learn, avail herself, act like a normal human being. It boggles the mind,

Clegane’s eyes turned toward the distant fires. “All this burning.” He sheathed his sword. “Only cowards fight with fire.”

“Lord Stannis is no coward.-

“He’s not the man his brother was either. Robert never let a little thing like a river stop him.”

“What will you do when he crosses?”

“Fight. Kill. Die, maybe.”

“Aren’t you afraid? The gods might send you down to some terrible hell for all the evil you’ve done.”

“What evil?” He laughed. “What gods?”

“The gods who made us all.”

“All?” he mocked. “Tell me, little bird, what kind of god makes a monster like the Imp, or a halfwit like Lady Tanda’s daughter? If there are gods, they made sheep so wolves could eat mutton, and they made the weak for the strong to play with.”

“True knights protect the weak.”

He snorted. “There are no true knights, no more than there are gods. If you can’t protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can. Sharp steel and strong arms rule this world, don’t ever believe any different.”

Sansa backed away from him. “You’re awful.”

“I’m honest. It’s the world that’s awful. Now fly away, little bird, I’m sick of you peeping at me.”

[Gingerly Grumkin]

@LLL

Why do you say Sansa hasn't learned? She hates knights because of that quote and many others by the Hound.

And how is LF good for the Vale when the Mountian Clans run wild?

And to the OP, nice crackpot but I don't buy it

[DragonSpawn]

Stannis wants to burn children alive.

- Melisandre wants to burn children alive... thankfully Stannis made Davos the Kings hand instead of Mel...

And plunged the realm into war, because he was to stubborn to make nice with his little brother, cost the lives of thousands.

This was Renly's fault not Stannis'

Robb was a utter fool, who refused to bend to common sense, and it ended up costing him his like and the lives of thousands of his north men. Not mention that of Sansa's mother.

Maybe foolish for letting Theon go .. yet to be seen... but an honourable hero trying to do whats right for his father and the realm without much choice..

The Lannisters are not evil

Really?!? I know Cersei was pissed about not getting to marry Rhaegar... but sleeping with her brother and giving birth to incestuous children and murdering the kings children... being a part of his death... this things have to be chalked up as pretty evil...

Lord Tywin protected his people and kept the realm in peace for 20 years when he was hand of the King. Something Ned couldn't manage for 9 months.

Lord Tywin is part of the reason there is no peace in the realm... Ned did more justice in his 9 months than in the enitre 17 years previous! :)

Nor is Petyr evil.

Everything Petyr is today is a result of being a sore loser... he's evil, manipulative and greedy. He's been involved in the poisioning of Jon Arryn, the attempted murder of Bran (this also highlights his eagernes to set the Starks and Targs against each other more than Lannisters and Starks i.e. Valyrian Blade and Fire in Winterfell against the last greenseer... He's also manipulated both Sansa and Lysa (he may have even be responsible for the mental breakdown Lysa had).

[Gingerly Grumkin]

this & that

I don't think Stannis or Robb is evil, but they did kill a lot of people (Stannis for the sake of pride, and Robb for the sake of revange, his sisters, and the fact that Cat was kinda queen regent) They did not care about the average person at all.

But to say the Lannisters are evil? Incest is wrong and what not, does that make them evil? It makes them sick pigs, but not evil. They are ambitious and power hungry, yet everything all of them do (except for Joff {joff is evil}) is for their family.

LF seems evil... However he is the antagonist of every character (except Dany {yet}) so it's hard not to be biased

[DragonSpawn]

You should be reading Cinderella!

Is there a book? maybe i should... i'm a little bit sensitive after the Red Wedding - ha! :D

Its like in inexplicably this random 13 year old girl, has not 1, not 2, but 3 of the most subtle, competent and capable characters in all of Westeros offering advice, guidance, and protection. And still she refuses to learn, avail herself, act like a normal human being.

- This is an oxy-moron ;) ... she's 13 - best not to expect too much.

[DragonSpawn]

But to say the Lannisters are evil? Incest is wrong and what not, does that make them evil? It makes them sick pigs, but not evil. They are ambitious and power hungry, yet everything all of them do (except for Joff {joff is evil}) is for their family.

Ha Ha! The Lannisters love their family!? That's funny! Genna Lannister - "i'm sorry for your loss" Jamie: "It's just a hand" ... Genna: "I meant your father!" and i believe there is a Joffrey quote of a similar nature too... and i think Cersei is over Joffrey already! lol!

I could chalk up a list of the evil things Cersei has done - starting with trying to twist Tryions cock off as a baby ... murdering her friend so that she could forget about her damn prophecy... the pile of dwarf skulls she is currently sitting on... the women she has sent down to Qyburn to be tortured and experimented on... the bastard children she has had murdered... this is what most normal people call 'textbook evil' ... i think there is a thread called: "the Others could learn a thing or two from Cersei" ... or something like that :) ... Cersei and Ser Gregor would make a nice couple... :D

Going back to Littlefinger... and why Sansa is important to him and what his motivations are... this Valyrian Dagger sent to kill Bran... more to it than meets the eye? Maybe not just an opportunistic assassination attempt but possible 'sign' that LF is stirring up trouble between Dragons and Wolves?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

- Melisandre wants to burn children alive... thankfully Stannis made Davos the Kings hand instead of Mel...

“I know the cost! Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning... burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?” The king moved, so his shadow fell upon King’s Landing. “If Joffrey should die... what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?”

This was Renly's fault not Stannis'

Not it wasn't the Tyrell's weren't going support Stannis, because they're afraid he'll seek retribution for the siege of storms end

Maybe foolish for letting Theon go .. yet to be seen... but an honourable hero trying to do whats right for his father and the realm without much choice..

I mean you're just using nonsense words, honorable, hero, what's right, none of that means anything to the tens of thousands of dead northmen. They're just words.

Really?!? I know Cersei was pissed about not getting to marry Rhaegar... but sleeping with her brother and giving birth to incestuous children and murdering the kings children... being a part of his death... this things have to be chalked up as pretty evil...

Why? Robert Bashed in Rhaegar's chest with a war hammer. Why is what Cersei did any different? Robert sent assassins after Dany. What make's Robert's children so precious? I quite certain Cersei can sleep with and give birth to whom ever's children she wants. It might not be the wisest move, but it certainly isn't evil. And I don't think she was pissed about not marrying Rhaegar she was pissed about having to marry Robert.

Lord Tywin is part of the reason there is no peace in the realm... Ned did more justice in his 9 months than in the enitre 17 years previous! :)

he didn't do anything but get himself and his family members and friends killed.

Everything Petyr is today is a result of being a sore loser

I believe they call that a blood debt in Westeros

... he's evil, manipulative and greedy

Yes, those are his best qualities

. He's been involved in the poisioning of Jon Arryn

YUP

, the attempted murder of Bran

Now did he do that? He was in kingslanding.... I suggest you reread

(this also highlights his eagernes to set the Starks and Targs against each other more than Lannisters and Starks i.e. Valyrian Blade and Fire in Winterfell against the last greenseer...

Now did he do that? He was in kingslanding.... I suggest you reread

He's also manipulated both Sansa and Lysa (he may have even be responsible for the mental breakdown Lysa had).

How do you know that? I would think it would her being forced to abort her child and then being forced in to a marriage with a 70 year old man and then having multiple miscarriages.

Anyway, he's not setting Starks against Lannisters. He's setting Lannisters against Tully. And that's what Edmure and Hoster get for treating him like shit when he was 15. Bad enough Brandon Stark split him open. Then they banished him the littlest finger and Edmure had the nerve to squire for Brandon? Well, woe be it onto anyone who incurs the wrath of Lord Baelish. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Mess with the best and die like the rest. And other various rhymes.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Ha Ha! The Lannisters love their family!? That's funny! Genna Lannister - "i'm sorry for your loss" Jamie: "It's just a hand" ... Genna: "I meant your father!" and i believe there is a Joffrey quote of a similar nature too... and i think Cersei is over Joffrey already! lol!

I could chalk up a list of the evil things Cersei has done - starting with trying to twist Tryions cock off as a baby ... murdering her friend so that she could forget about her damn prophecy... the pile of dwarf skulls she is currently sitting on... the women she has sent down to Qyburn to be tortured and experimented on... the bastard children she has had murdered... this is what most normal people call 'textbook evil' ... i think there is a thread called: "the Others could learn a thing or two from Cersei" ... or something like that :) ... Cersei and Ser Gregor would make a nice couple... :D

Going back to Littlefinger... and why Sansa is important to him and what his motivations are... this Valyrian Dagger sent to kill Bran... more to it than meets the eye? Maybe not just an opportunistic assassination attempt but possible 'sign' that LF is stirring up trouble between Dragons and Wolves?

Joff is a prick. His brother and sister are cool, but just children anyway...

Tywin did everything for his future descendants, not one thing was done that hurts the Lannister name in the long run. His brother abandond the realm, along with the most honorable title ever, for his family. Cersei did everything for Joffrey, when he died she made sure that Tommon won't turn into a flower. The Lannister boys think about each other all the time, and would have died for each other if need be.

Plus how can you say a whole family is evil?

ETA. Wait are you saying LF is the one who tried to kill Bran? Because he is not (that was Tommen lol)

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

@LLL

Why do you say Sansa hasn't learned? She hates knights because of that quote and many others by the Hound.

And how is LF good for the Vale when the Mountian Clans run wild?

And to the OP, nice crackpot but I don't buy it

the mountain clans in inconsequential. They don't really pose a major threat. And they've never been under the power of the Arryns.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

the mountain clans in inconsequential. They don't really pose a major threat. And they've never been under the power of the Arryns.

They were harrased under the power of the Arryns, not of Lysa Tully. And you said the people are safe and sound, when The Mountian Clans clearly exisit for a reason (otherwise they would have fought/died in BBW)

And it seems like Petyr is going to be marching off to war soon, do you really think he is going to stop with just 2 empty castles of the Eyrie and Harrenhall?

[DragonSpawn]

ETA. Wait are you saying LF is the one who tried to kill Bran? Because he is not (that was Tommen lol)

:) that would certainly make tommen more interesting! I generalise the lannisters being evil because of all the baby killing... Tywin for aegon and his sister (yes i know he didnt intend for it but he employed gregor etc for that exact reason) ... Cersei for roberts bastards and even jamie threw a small boy out the window. So i think its fair to speak of the 'lannisters' being evil...

With regards to the valyrian dagger i thought everyone knew it was LF? He told cat he lost it to tyrion betting on jamie... But tryion never bets against jamie... Did tyrion even recognise the dagger? I cant really remember but it never made much sense..

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

They were harrased under the power of the Arryns, not of Lysa Tully. And you said the people are safe and sound, when The Mountian Clans clearly exisit for a reason (otherwise they would have fought/died in BBW)

And it seems like Petyr is going to be marching off to war soon, do you really think he is going to stop with just 2 empty castles of the Eyrie and Harrenhall?

the mountains clans have to something, for them to be taken seriously. They are better armed. But they're not a serious threat and I assume they'll be dealt with now.

As for the castles? what?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Plus how can you say a whole family is evil?

Thusly -- Freys.

Of course I'm in the minority in wanting the entire family dead, but that's what LF would do, wouldn't he? (Alternatively he'd build another bridge over the Trident, install toll booths, charge less than the Freys for a crossing, and put them the hell out of business. That would REALLY be revenge.)

Anyhoo -- I keep hearing people say that LF is going to try to make a match between Aegon and Sansa, but in fact Sansa has nothing to offer Aegon. He wants spears, or better, dragons. Dragons. The spears in the North are otherwise occupied, and the spears in the Vale, hello -- Jon Arryn, Robert's rebellion, Robert ward of Jon Arryn -- might be a bit reluctant to support a Targaryen. More important, Connington wants those dragons and I doubt that he's going to let Aegon cozy up to any mere mortal dragonless woman.

Then there's the fact that once the Dragon Lady actually appears in Westeros Aegon IV will probably be Aegon the Toast in short order. LF said that widowhood becomes Sansa, but geez.

[Lyanna Stark]

“I’m honest. It’s the world that’s awful. Now fly away, little bird, I’m sick of you peeping at me.”

And yet, in this scenario, Sansa wins, cos Sandor was the one who was stalking her, and then when she stands up to him, HE gets all huffy. :lol:

You know, a lot of people claim Sansa is perma-scared of Sandor, but she also challenges him, like here, which few people do. We only really see Arya do the same, so in that regard the Stark sisters are not that different (and Sandor has acted as a protector to both of them, too).

Thusly -- Freys.

Noooo. Don't you be nasty to Fat Walda and Gatehouse Ami! :(

[Gingerly Grumkin]

:) that would certainly make tommen more interesting! I generalise the lannisters being evil because of all the baby killing... Tywin for aegon and his sister (yes i know he didnt intend for it but he employed gregor etc for that exact reason) ... Cersei for roberts bastards and even jamie threw a small boy out the window. So i think its fair to speak of the 'lannisters' being evil...

With regards to the valyrian dagger i thought everyone knew it was LF? He told cat he lost it to tyrion betting on jamie... But tryion never bets against jamie... Did tyrion even recognise the dagger? I cant really remember but it never made much sense..

Tywin knew exactly what would happen with the babies. He did it for the realm and Robert (it was a nice dowry) Cersei killed Robert's children for the saftey of her kids. The Kingslayer did that to protect himself and the love of his life from certian death.

LF lied about the dagger, but it was Joff who gave it to that dude

[Lyanna Stark]

:( Quite like the idea of a hero coming to rescue Sansa - we didn't get to see it while she was a captive in KL... Instead we had a fool and a man possibly more cruel and evil than the Lannisters rescuing her. That wasn't much of a pay-off... Robb Stark tried and failed... even Stannis tried and failed... would be quite nice to see a proper successful rescue although i'll admit Sansa fighting her own way out of this situation would be just as rewarding :)

Who's the cruel one? LF?

Anyways, I think Sansa definitely needs to build up the know how to save herself.

Who knows, when she does maybe even LLL will come around and confess himself a Sansa lover! :grouphug: