Less examined bits of the AA prophecy

[Menos Grande]

If the blood of robert's bastard acts like a "king's blood" I think that a person just need to be acknowledged as a king so them all this bloodline is "king" itself... not some kind of divine right to be a king... Dany had blood of kings, Khal Drogo and Raegho also.. even though Raegho died first it was still part of the price of the dragons, his life is bind to Drogo's so I guess it fits. If It didn't there shouldn't be dragons, I guess Dany is the Azor Ahai, but it might be that thing of "it needs a third head" that makes she incomplete or maybe some else will be A together with her.. just like Neo and Trinity, were both the "Chosen one"

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Its not incorrect, its just the only way Mel could kill two kings instead of a king and a baby.

Well consider my mind effing blown. Now I'm wondering if the "father and son" thing is even in the prophecy, or if it's specific to Mance and his son, because they just need two kings. If they just need two kings and any will do, it's a whole new ballgame.

And in that case, I'm saying that the two kings were Aerys and Aegon. B)

[tze]

On the two kings: other threads have discussed the very real possibility that Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's heir. If she gives birth to a son, he would automatically be considered King in the North, in the eyes of the Northmen (and probably the Riverlords). And if, say, someone were to murder him? Or to negligently cause his death? (What if the Freys get their hands on Jeyne and the kid?) "Wake the dragon" could mean Jon is going to unleash hell to avenge his murdered nephew, as well as his murdered brother---two kings to "wake the dragon", the father first (Robb) and then the son (Robb's son with Jeyne), so both die kings (so avenging them becomes a national issue and not merely a family-based, personal issue for Jon).

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Interesting post, opens many possibilities. There's also the theory that Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's kid so this could play into this as well, although I don't believe Jeyne is at all pregnant.

Also I don't think AA is a checklist type of thing where you say well I was born under fire and salt, and then this and that part of the prophecy I fulfilled so now Im AA. I think it's more along the lines of a specific person is AA and they fit the general prophecy of AA, the rest of the people who fit some parts of the prophecy are just coincidences or misinterpretations.

It's not a whoever fills up the checklists first will be AA but AA is set in stone since the moment he/she was born.

Also I liked the idea of Mance and his son being the two kings but even more so the interpretation of the Summer that never ends as Bran's summer, very interesting.

[Teal'c]

Apple doesn't someone always become a king because those who are in the succession line which precedes have died? The only special exception would be when someone is abdicated. Maybe something special about two kings dying the same day, that could be it. I'm just thinking the two kings before you die, then you are king, that's just normal succession.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

On the two kings: other threads have discussed the very real possibility that Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb's heir. If she gives birth to a son, he would automatically be considered King in the North, in the eyes of the Northmen (and probably the Riverlords). And if, say, someone were to murder him? Or to negligently cause his death? (What if the Freys get their hands on Jeyne and the kid?) "Wake the dragon" could mean Jon is going to unleash hell to avenge his murdered nephew, as well as his murdered brother---two kings to "wake the dragon", the father first (Robb) and then the son (Robb's son with Jeyne), so both die kings (so avenging them becomes a national issue and not merely a family-based, personal issue for Jon).

Also an interesting idea. Curious that "wake the dragon" has a dual meaning that we're aware of (bringing out anger), in addition to its meaning within the context of the prophecy.

The reason I hit upon Aegon and Aerys is that their deaths are what made Jon the king and that he could have been born literally at the same time as they died, or very, very soon after.

Apple doesn't someone always become a king because those who are in the succession line which precedes have died? The only special exception would be when someone is abdicated. Maybe something special about two kings dying the same day, that could be it. I'm just thinking the two kings before you die, then you are king, that's just normal succession.

Yes I believe that's how it works. "The king is dead, long live the king" etc. :)

[EgoistMusketeer]

I like Aerys and Aegon.

Going in a dif direction, waking the dragon out of stone could be Dany snapping out of her "lets rule Meereen" phase and flying back to Westeros. There is a giant stone pyramid there...

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I like Aerys and Aegon.

Going in a dif direction, waking the dragon out of stone could be Dany snapping out of her "lets rule Meereen" phase and flying back to Westeros. There is a giant stone pyramid there...

Meh. I could end up being wrong but I don't think it's Dany.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

I don't think that it is Aerys and Aegon because Jon wasn't really woken. In a sense he is still a sleeping dragon since he doesn't know what he really is. Assuming R+L=J. That doesn't mean it couldnt be Jon but I just don't think its aerys+aegon = Jon

[Sand Snake No. 9]

There are some problems with regarding Mance and his son as the two kings. First they don't necessarily have "king's blood," because I interpret that requirement to mean a bloodline, inherited kingship. Mance's "kingship" is one of Mel's convenient fictions. Although some posters have speculated that Mance may be a Stark or even somehow a descendant of Bloodraven, the fact is that he didn't inherit his title, and his son wouldn't inherit the title, either. Little Aemon Battleborn-to-be is just some wilding kid until he grows up and kicks the shit out of his rivals for the title. So Mel's sacrifice of Mance and his baby would just be a sacrifice of some guy and his baby.

The deaths of Cersei's kids wouldn't count either because they're not from the king's bloodline.

I favor any combo of Targs, Aerys/Rhaegar, Rhaegar/Aegon, or Aerys/Aegon (Rhaegar still technically crown prince when he died). Hell, you could even count Aerys/Viserys, father and son, because the hatching of Dany's egg came just a few months after Viserys met his death by fire, more or less.

And this is a digression, but Melisandre doesn't seem to be aware of Dany and the Dragons (that would be such a good name for a girl-band, no?). So, didn't she get the memo, is she a rogue R'hllorist, is she that bad at reading the fire? Just sayin'

[EgoistMusketeer]

There are some problems with regarding Mance and his son as the two kings. First they don't necessarily have "king's blood," because I interpret that requirement to mean a bloodline, inherited kingship. Mance's "kingship" is one of Mel's convenient fictions. Although some posters have speculated that Mance may be a Stark or even somehow a descendant of Bloodraven, the fact is that he didn't inherit his title, and his son wouldn't inherit the title, either. Little Aemon Battleborn-to-be is just some wilding kid until he grows up and kicks the shit out of his rivals for the title. So Mel's sacrifice of Mance and his baby would just be a sacrifice of some guy and his baby.

The deaths of Cersei's kids wouldn't count either because they're not from the king's bloodline.

I favor any combo of Targs, Aerys/Rhaegar, Rhaegar/Aegon, or Aerys/Aegon (Rhaegar still technically crown prince when he died). Hell, you could even count Aerys/Viserys, father and son, because the hatching of Dany's egg came just a few months after Viserys met his death by fire, more or less.

And this is a digression, but Melisandre doesn't seem to be aware of Dany and the Dragons (that would be such a good name for a girl-band, no?). So, didn't she get the memo, is she a rogue R'hllorist, is she that bad at reading the fire? Just sayin'

I really don't think Mel is that picky about her King's blood, she wanted Edric Storm afterall. Maybe its Valyrian blood rather than King's blood that would boost her spells but she misinterpreted because the Targaryens were also kings.

[Leviathan I]

Am I the only one skeptical of this prophecy? just because someone says it's a prophecy doesn't mean it has to happen.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Am I the only one skeptical of this prophecy? just because someone says it's a prophecy doesn't mean it has to happen.

No, not at all. I'm skeptical about aspects of it. Biggest thing, I don't believe it's Dany, precisely because so many people in the story (Aemon, the red priests in Essos, etc.) think it is. I'm also not convinced that it's someone who's actually benevolent (an unending summer and the walking, resurrected dead are not necessarily good things), or that it hasn't already been fulfilled yet. It could be one person, multiple people or no one.

I just think discussing aspects of it is entertaining and it's interesting to see what other ideas people have.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

No, not at all. I'm skeptical about aspects of it. Biggest thing, I don't believe it's Dany, precisely because so many people in the story (Aemon, the red priests in Essos, etc.) think it is. I'm also not convinced that it's someone who's actually benevolent (an unending summer and the walking, resurrected dead are not necessarily good things), or that it hasn't already been fulfilled yet. It could be one person, multiple people or no one.

I just think discussing aspects of it is entertaining and it's interesting to see what other ideas people have.

And so many of the people interpreting the prophecy keep thinking the dragons referenced are actual dragons, instead of symbolic ones, i.e., Targs. You'd think they never read the Dunk & Egg stories, or something.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

And so many of the people interpreting the prophecy keep thinking the dragons referenced are actual dragons, instead of symbolic ones, i.e., Targs. You'd think they never read the Dunk & Egg stories, or something.

To be fair, a lot of them haven't read the D&E stories. Some people have read or know about them and still think it's about the actual dragons.

Food for thought ... if the eggs Illyrio gave to Dany were actually from the Targ stash (Viserion would be Aerion's, Rhaegal would be Aegon V's and Drogon would be Lord Butterwell's, I think) and not from Asshai, they would be too new to be petrified and wouldn't actually be "stone." :leer:

[EgoistMusketeer]

To be fair, a lot of them haven't read the D&E stories. Some people have read or know about them and still think it's about the actual dragons.

Food for thought ... if the eggs Illyrio gave to Dany were actually from the Targ stash (Viserion would be Aerion's, Rhaegal would be Aegon V's and Drogon would be Lord Butterwell's, I think) and not from Asshai, they would be too new to be petrified and wouldn't actually be "stone." :leer:

If they were from the Targ stash wouldn't they have have hatched undersized and deformed?

[Tumnas the Torpid]

To be fair, a lot of them haven't read the D&E stories. Some people have read or know about them and still think it's about the actual dragons.

Food for thought ... if the eggs Illyrio gave to Dany were actually from the Targ stash (Viserion would be Aerion's, Rhaegal would be Aegon V's and Drogon would be Lord Butterwell's, I think) and not from Asshai, they would be too new to be petrified and wouldn't actually be "stone." :leer:

I heard there was going to be a collected volume, so I was going to wait for that.

I guess I can assume the prince what got promised comes up? Or just general dragon talk?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

If they were from the Targ stash wouldn't they have have hatched undersized and deformed?

Not if there weren't maesters around to poison them.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If they were from the Targ stash wouldn't they have have hatched undersized and deformed?

What Sand Snake said. They weren't poisoned and weren't (until ADWD) kept chained in a pit. The last living dragon was small and stunted, but it's possible that some of the family eggs were a little older and were from "studier" stock. We know that the last female dragon laid five eggs before she died, but I don't think that those five eggs were the only ones in the family's possession. It just means, she laid five eggs before she died.

I guess I can assume the prince what got promised comes up? Or just general dragon talk?

In the D&E stories, whenever a "dragon" appears in a prophecy, it refers to a Targaryen, not a literal dragon. It's happened twice in three stories. Daeron Targaryen (Aegon V's brother) had a vision of a large black dragon falling on Dunk. Turned out to be Baelor Breakspear. Later, Daemon II Blackfyre has a vision of a dragon "hatching" at Whitewalls and it turned out to be Aegon V.

The D&E stories are supposed to go up to Summerhall. My theory is that the Ghost of High Heart (or someone) told Aegon V that they saw a "dragon hatching out of Summerhall." This would have prompted Aegon V to try to hatch dragon eggs there, with the disastrous results we know of. But Rhaegar was born that same day and was associated with Summerhall his entire life. Rhaegar would be the dragon who hatched out of Summerhall.

It's because of the D&E instances that I'm leery of literally read dragon prophecies in the main story, but some people disagree.

[ARYa_Nym]

Dany's eggs have been described as stone in the books so I don't think it matters really.

"...it was much heavier than that, as if it were all of solid stone. "

"She put her palm against the black egg, fingers spread gently across the curve of the shell. The stone was warm. Almost hot."

"He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals."

Mel seems to think that AA will hatch dragon eggs. I also noticed that she thinks that AA and TPWWP are the same person yet still thinks that Stannis is AA.

"How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies... a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone... she speaks of signs and swears they point to me."

Stannis has no eggs though so I think the third in the slayer of lies sequence that is breathing shadow fire might be some type of dragon she tried to make. Maybe she needs king's blood to do it.This might relate to Shireen's dream about dragons eating her. It could be something else entirely not having to do with Mel but shadow makes me think of her.