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Queen Jeyne Westerling/Theories

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Changing her name didn't require making her some modernized chick from Volantis.

I think this Reddit post explains thoroughly the difference between Talisa and Jeyne, and why the change was made. Specifically this paragraph

Talisa is really something of a modern woman, in the real world sense. She is independent, strong willed, intelligent, brave and a skilled doctor. She isn't awed by Robb's status, and initially treats him impudently, by the standards of Westeros (and probably Volantis as well.) They fall in love after a going for long walks and intimate discussions. Apparently, in the show, this is the sort of woman Robb falls for - he isn't interested in the simpering wenches most men are, he's much more sophisticated than that. It's easy to see why the viewers like her (I did), and why they like Robb better for his taste in women...

...So why did HBO change things around? Well, we get a female love-interest who modern men are actually likely to be attracted to, and who modern women are likely to identify with. Robb seems more likeable, and his foolish decision to break his betrothal to Walder Frey's daughter seems more understandable. Writing it like that, it seems a rather positive change, but I can't help feel it undermines a tiny bit of Martin's vision.

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Yeah, I remember that article, or something extremely similar to it. Here's my issue:

and his foolish decision to break his betrothal to Walder Frey's daughter seems more understandable.

How is it more understandable? To me, this way is more foolish. It's puppy love. His mom was just harping on him about not doing anything stupid and reminding him of his obligation. He has no news of Bran and Rickon being killed by the best friend of his childhood. Whereas in the book...Robb is injured in battle, his mom isn't around, and he gets wind of what happened to Bran and Rickon. Jeyne is there during his moment of vulnerability, so they do their thing, and Robb feels honor bound to marry a lady who he may have just impregnated. Growing up with Jon, he knows how shitty bearing a bastard can be for the kid and the mom. A contemporary love at first sight story has nothing on Martin's writing.

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I didn't say I agreed that Robb's decision is more understandable in the show than the books.. I was just saying what I thought was the reason for the change. And personally, I don't have too much of a problem with it. The book and series are different beasts, with different audiences, and there are going to be changes to accomodate that. The series being different doesn't invalidate the books, they're still there. I think there is a problem with holding up the books as a beacon of perfection, when they are still quite a niche genre with plot elements that the general public (aka HBO's main audience) might not find as compelling as the fans do. People are suckers for romance, and most would sympathise more with a young man in love than a system of honor five hundred years seperate from us.

I'm going to get out of this conversation now.

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Their conversations were not only too modern , but inane..Her back story...my eyes are still rolling.

I know at least one book reader who's given up on the series..not because they don't have time to show everything , not because of the exclusion of minor characters ..it's the writing in of modern type characters and other general pandering to modern tastes, which are at odds with the books.

anyway , OT ...

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Old news, everybody in Westeros has known about the Red Wedding for some time now. Jeyne or Faux Jeyne has to be crying for some other reason.

Cersei and Catelyn told Sansa (in different occasions) that tears are a woman weapon.... And it is not hard to look desperate and cry when the life of what's left of your family depends on it...

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I was rereading Storm of Swords this week and as I was reading these pages below, it clicked with something I'd read in ADwD.

On page 272 paperback, Tyrion and Lord Tywin are discussing Robb Starks

marriage to Jenye Westerling. This is how the scene goes : The Westerlings stood to lose everything here; their lands, their castle, their very lives. A Lannister always pays his debts, Tyrion thought.

"Jeyne Westerling is her mother's daughter," said Lord Tywin.

This Westerling betrayal did not seem to have enraged his father as much as

Tyrion would have expected. "The Crag is not so far from Tarbeck Hall and Castamere," Tyrion point out. "You'd think the Westerlings might have ridden past and seen the lesson there."

"Mayhaps they have," Lord Tywin said. "They are well aware of Castamere, I

promise you."

"Could the Westerlings and the Spicers be such great fools as to believe the

wolf can defeat the lion?"

Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold. "The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them," Lord Tywin said.

Later on, Jeyne Westerling is talking to Lady Catelyn. Catelyn tells Jeyne that a king needs an heir to which Jenye responds "My mother says the same. She makes a posset for me, herbs and milk and ale, to help make me fertile. I drink it every morning."

When Sybil Westerling is talking to Jaime Lannister after Robb has been killed and Riverrun surrendered, she tells Jaime that his father had promised good marriages for her children, etc. Why would Lord Tywin reward betrayal? UNLESS It was not a betrayal but an elaborate ploy to get Robb to lose the Freys. Before Robb had married Jeyne, Tywin was told by his father that some battles are won with swords, others with quills and paper.

Using the above instances, I think Lord Twyin planned for the Westerlings to trick their daughter into seducing Robb and then kept her from getting pregnant with the 'fertile potion.' What do you guys think?

Well done. You totally cited all your points with text from the book. Jeyne's devious parents were spying for Tywin all along and totally used her like a pawn. Just the type of awful parenting that is typical in the grrm universe.

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