Euphail Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Doesn't the fact that Cersei was Queen and a Baratheon complicate matters? How can she inheret, or Tommen stand in line of succession for the Rock, when her right is to Westeros, not Caterly Rock? or does it not matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanoj Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I don't think it matters. Bringing Casterly Rock into the fold would be a good way to increase direct royal power. Robert should have done that with the Stormlands when he became King instead of giving them to Renly (see my thread http://asoiaf.wester...-royal-demesne/).Cersei's situation is slightly different, to be sure, because Tommen is the actual monarch and not her. However, that should eventually resolve itself because Tommen is her heir to the Rock anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphail Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I don't think it matters. Bringing Casterly Rock into the fold would be a good way to increase direct royal power. Robert should have done that with the Stormlands when he became King instead of giving them to Renly (see my thread http://asoiaf.wester...-royal-demesne/).Cersei's situation is slightly different, to be sure, because Tommen is the actual monarch and not her. However, that should eventually resolve itself because Tommen is her heir to the Rock anyway.If it's the case that the monarch can inheret other lands, shouldn't Tommen take the Stormlands as well then? He is currently a lawful Baratheon, and no other Baratheons are around (I assume he stripped Stannis of his rights). Renly had no children. For that matter, shouldn't Cersei take the Stormlands as well? or at least have some claim to them through her late husband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanoj Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 If it's the case that the monarch can inheret other lands, shouldn't Tommen take the Stormlands as well then? He is currently a lawful Baratheon, and no other Baratheons are around (I assume he stripped Stannis of his rights). Renly had no children. For that matter, shouldn't Cersei take the Stormlands as well? or at least have some claim to them through her late husband?A widow acquiring her husbands' lands and titles in her own right seems to be quite common in Westeros (Lady Whent, Lady Dustin, Lady Hornwood) and in the case of the Hornwoods, apparently it's legal for an unrelated man to acquire the late Lord Hornwood's lands by marrying his widow (you'd think it would go to a cousin instead). However, we've never seen this applied to a paramount Lordship such as the Stormlands, and it's irrelevant anyway because (according to Cersei) Robert left trueborn children who would be Renly's logical heirs with Stannis attainted.So yes, Tommen (or Myrcella, if for some reason they want to split the inheritance again) could claim the Stormlands, and thus far nobody has named a new Storm Lord. Of course, with Aegon invading there and a Tyrell army going to confront him, none of this really matters.EDIT: I should add that this is conjecture on my part. It doesn't actually say anywhere that the monarch can inherit other lands. But it would be very strange if they couldn't. I can't think of any logical reason or real life examples of such a ban. However, some holdings did come with conditions that stipulated against them being merged into the Crown and had to be governed under a separate jurisdiction, so for example King John II of France was also Duke John I of Burgundy in personal union, despite the Duchy of Burgundy being part of France anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphail Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 edit: nm answered above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valyrian_steel Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I would guess that either Cersei was named Lady of Casterly Rock on a decree of the king or it is illegal for Tommen to be both King and Lord of the Rock. There is no way Cersei supersedes Tommen in any matter of succession. If that were the case then Cercei would be Queen and Tommen the Prince and her heir. If I understand the way succession works in Westeros, any male sharing the blood line stands ahead of any female regardless which is closer to source. Once their r no more males with Tywin Lannister's blood, the line reverts to Cersei who is followed by Marcella. In any succession, blood is the key.As to Storm's End, Cersei has no claim as she has no Baratheon blood. Typically it would be held for Tommen's first born son. Marcella likely holds the title of Lady of Storm's End if that title has been conferred to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlan Marius Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I want to see Gerion show up with Brightroar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Lancel is to busy "pumping dutifully away" to rule a great house of westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlan Marius Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Lancel is to busy "pumping dutifully away" to rule a great house of westeros.He hasn't "pumped" anything since he turned to the Seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I would guess that either Cersei was named Lady of Casterly Rock on a decree of the king or it is illegal for Tommen to be both King and Lord of the Rock. There is no way Cersei supersedes Tommen in any matter of succession. If that were the case then Cercei would be Queen and Tommen the Prince and her heir. If I understand the way succession works in Westeros, any male sharing the blood line stands ahead of any female regardless which is closer to source. Once their r no more males with Tywin Lannister's blood, the line reverts to Cersei who is followed by Marcella. In any succession, blood is the key.Cercei supersedes matters of Tommen in matters of LANNISTER succession. Obviously, she can't be the queen before Tommen because she is not a Baratheon by blood, only by marriage. Tommen, however, IS officially a Baratheon by blood, at least for the moment (no matter what we know and probably else does do about his real heritage), and is therefore eligible to inherit the throne from Robert, as he has. Only if he is officially declared not to be Robert's son, as for example, he will be if Cercei's loses her trial by battle, will there be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlan Marius Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It isn't a joke if it doesn't make sense in its context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 :bowdown: Fooooorgive me master of humor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenhair Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Because of his marriage to Amerei Frey, Lancel was to be Lord of Darry, but renounced everything after his vows to the Warrior's Sons. Kevan did a good job setting up Lancel with a title, lands, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm pretty sure Varys is holding Tyrek Lannister in reserve to be a puppet ruler of the Westerlands. As it stands, there are only five family members ahead of him in the line of succession for Casterly Rock (possibly even four, since I can see Janei Lannister being passed over because she is a girl).Cersei Lannister (1st daughter of Tywin, granddaughter of Tytos)Tommen Baratheon (2nd son of Cersei, grandson of Tywin)Myrcella Baratheon (1st daughter of Cersei, granddaughter of Tywin)Martyn Lannister (3rd son of Kevan, grandson of Tytos)Janei Lannister (1st daughter of Kevan, granddaughter of Tytos)Tyrek Lannister (1st son of Tygett, grandson of Tytos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Oh, that's interesting. I'd forgotten that Tygett's son came before all of Genna's children, so I was thinking he was farther behind than that. If it comes out that Tommen and Myrcella are illegitimate, then he's actually 3rd in line, even closer. I would be so pissed if something happened to poor Martyn though, after his twin's brutal death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Oh, that's interesting. I'd forgotten that Tygett's son came before all of Genna's children, so I was thinking he was farther behind than that. If it comes out that Tommen and Myrcella are illegitimate, then he's actually 3rd in line, even closer. I would be so pissed if something happened to poor Martyn though, after his twin's brutal death.See, that's the thing, we kind of already know that Cersei, Tommen and Myrcella will not be there for long. It then comes down to Martyn Lannister and Janei Lannister (and whether the latter is truly ahead of Tyrek in the line of succession).I'm really curious if the second Red Wedding will go down and which Lannisters will be invited. Because if it does, then the line of succession is going to get awfully smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Ser Daven seems to be the boss of the west at the moment. And he can ease himself into being the Lord if he only has Lancel to compete with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm pretty sure Martin has specifically said that we will find out what happened to Tyrek, but has he ever hinted as to whether Gerion Lannister will play a part in the story? If he married, and had legitimate children, they would pop up ahead of Genna's kids too and right behind Tyrek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Oh, that's interesting. I'd forgotten that Tygett's son came before all of Genna's children, so I was thinking he was farther behind than that. If it comes out that Tommen and Myrcella are illegitimate, then he's actually 3rd in line, even closer. I would be so pissed if something happened to poor Martyn though, after his twin's brutal death.I have wondered why Varys would have held on to Tyrek (which seems to be the case or intensive search for him would have turned up _something_), when there were so many people in the line of inheritance before him. And then it hit me that with all the talk of Tygett trying to "be his own man" and getting angry, etc., maybe he didn't participate in the Sack of KL and perhaps even opposed it? Maybe Varys's idea was that Aegon would summarily attaint the progeny of folks who were guilty of the Sack and that would propel Tyrek on top as the puppet Lannister? Or, now that most of the people who preceded them are out of the running, one way or another, or are clearly for the chop, like Cersei and her kids, his marriage to the baby can be easily set aside and he can marry Janei, to consolidate the 2 inheritance lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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