[Book Spoilers] Splitting Feast and Dance

[DaveSumm]

Well, I said in the RW thread how I think that's more than enough storyline for a season so I won't rehash it here.

Back on topic: seeing as the UK version of aDwD is split at the point where it overlaps aFfC, I thought I'd look at the final chapters of part 1:

Tyrion IX: a storm hits the ship and they're left stranded. Actually not a bad place to end the season.

The Watcher: Balon Swann arrives in Dorne with what is supposedly Gregor's skull.

Jon VIII: sends Val north, talks about the wildlings going to Hardhome. Not much going on here to be honest.

The Prince in Winterfell: fake-Arya marriage.

Dany VI: closes the gates to the sick Astapori and beds Daario.

Then there's Asha at Deepwood getting invaded by Northmen (although this is only about halfway through) and Bran's three chapters all fall in part 1. All in all, there's probably enough to scrape a finale out of with some jigging about. Although it's hard to see how this season could live up to the previous one.

[oierem]

Until now, they always said that each season was going to be roughly based on one book. It's only starting with book 3 that they've said they're not exactly following the book structure anymore.

It's true that, ultimately, book openers make god season openers, and book endings make good season endings. But that only works if it's all included in one season, and that's not going to happen. So the truth is, they need good season endings for season 3 that aren't book endings, and the same with the next seasons.

If they end the season with the PW, I imagine a lot of non-readers will say "The PW is a season-finale event, it cannot happen in the middle of a season/book, it only works as an ending...", whereas for book-readers it's not a book/season-ending event at all!

[Crown]

Season 4 should, at the very least, have the Iron Island chapters from Dances up until Euron is made king. It should also have the Dorne chapters, so that way they can show Quentyn right away in Season 5.

I hope they're adding a lot to Quentyn (really like the fellow), and make him even more likeable on the show, so his death will be a unpleasant surprise.

[gogorath]

As much as I would love to see the final chapters of Storm used as season enders, I fear it's too late for that. There is strong evidence that the producers will put the red wedding in season 3 allready, possibly th purple wedding too, after which there isn't enough material left to go to the end of season 4, even if you stuff it up with things like the kingsmoot and other simultaneous chapters.

Except there is. There's a ton of plot in a Storm of Swords. The Red Wedding will be in Season 3. There's no evidence whatsoever about the Purple Wedding (just a lot of conjecture) but either way, there's plenty of plot to go around in Season 4 from Storm.

I can see some of Feast and Dance being pulled in on characters that are not plot heavy/missing, but really, there's no way that the season doesn't end with the climax of Book 3 -- Mereen (or whatever they name it) and either Jon being named LC or Stannis arriving at the Wall and Tyrion killing Tywin. Both those plotlines are chock full and what from early Dance/Feast is going to cap a season off? There's absolutely nothing.

[gogorath]

Good thread.

Jon Snow / The Wall: Cut when Stannis leaves to rally the hill tribes. For Season 5, focus will be not on the growing dissent amongst the Night's Watch officers, but on Jon's relationship with Stannis.

Does that really give Jon anything to do in Season 5? Is there a chance him becoming LC is bounced to Season 5 to create more plot there/ That'd be a slow Jon Snow season 5. Jon really has a two season story arc in Season 2/3 and season two lost a lot of punch because of it.

Sam / The Journey to Oldtown: Cut when Xhondo offers them passage to Oldtown. Most of his screentime in season 6 will be devoted to his romance with Gilly.

I could see this, but only because Sam's minor. But I could also see maybe moving some Sam in Oldtown plot up to Season 6 from Winds (presumably). I think, combined with the above, that Jon and Sam arguing over the babies and how Jon outfoxes Stannis will become a major plotpoint in the show, taking up a few scenes. Combined with maybe moving LC to season 5 and maybe Sam doesn't leave the Wall until mid to late Season 5. This cuts down on how incredibly boring Sam's story would be if extended at all.

Sam's storyline of becoming more self-sufficient -- the fat, pink mast; hitting Daeron, getting a ship -- that should be in one season so it isn't lost.

Theon / The North: Cut at the arrival at Winterfell. The wedding would be at the start of season 6.

The two season "arc" becomes a problem. Is Season 5 just a check in?

...

I'd go through the rest, but after doing a few, it's apparent that they are going to have to make some core decisions. Is it a single season with 20 episodes shown over two years? Is it two separate seasons and some stories are emphasized and then just checked in on to maintain the "arc over one season" niceness? Will they create steps or plotpoints in the arcs to try to do both at once? (See Jon and Dany this year).

[Arkash]

I hope they're adding a lot to Quentyn (really like the fellow), and make him even more likeable on the show, so his death will be a unpleasant surprise.

Count me in !

[Ser Loudmouth]

Except there is. There's a ton of plot in a Storm of Swords. The Red Wedding will be in Season 3. There's no evidence whatsoever about the Purple Wedding (just a lot of conjecture) but either way, there's plenty of plot to go around in Season 4 from Storm.

There is some circumstantial evidence (like Jack Gleeson wanting to go to colege, he might not sign for a 4-th season). Besides, it makes no sense to end a season with the Red Wedding: it's anticlimatic and viewers might leave the show if it looks like the "bad guys" have won.

Also, even if season 3 does indeed end with the RW, there is still less then a half or the book left for season 4, since the RW was after the midway point.

I can see some of Feast and Dance being pulled in on characters that are not plot heavy/missing, but really, there's no way that the season doesn't end with the climax of Book 3 -- Mereen (or whatever they name it) and either Jon being named LC or Stannis arriving at the Wall and Tyrion killing Tywin. Both those plotlines are chock full and what from early Dance/Feast is going to cap a season off? There's absolutely nothing.

Dany taking Mereen can't be that late. There is a chronology somewhere on this site proving that the Dany chapters actually happen earlier then their place in the books. So the taking of Mereen should probably be the end of season 3, not 4. Besides, if Dany spends one season taking Astapor and another taking Mereen, the material will be stretched and it will look like the show is recycling plots. Better to have Dany try to rule Mereen in season 4 (ending with the armistice and her wedding) and in season 5 she can start to recieve visitors from Westeros.

For the same purpose I would end season 4 with Euron sending Victarion east (remember, Balon dies very early in book 3, so the Kingsmoot has most likely already happened by the time it ends, even if we only read about it in the next book) and with Doran's "fire and blood" speech.

Does that really give Jon anything to do in Season 5? Is there a chance him becoming LC is bounced to Season 5

That's again, waaay too late. Remember, Jon gets elected lord commander shortly after the battle at the wall, which happens roughly at the same time as the purple wedding, so early season 4 at most. Besides, Jon needs to send Sam south allready, or else his story will be lagging behind other characters.

[DaveSumm]

Besides, it makes no sense to end a season with the Red Wedding: it's anticlimatic and viewers might leave the show if it looks like the "bad guys" have won.

I never really bought this line of reasoning. I think by now TV viewers are quite aware this isn't your standard good-guys-versus-bad-guys show, and hopefully the RW will make for incredible television. So surely they'll be more likely to tune in to Season 4, not less. Besides, the show didn't lose viewers to Ned's death, it gained them.

Dany taking Mereen can't be that late.

That's again, waaay too late.

I don't think the producers are particularly fussed about the exact chronology, considering the plots don't really interact. The trouble is your plans leave gaps that we don't have material to fill them with: if Euron sends Victarion east at the end of 4, there's only two Victarion chapters left after that and Winds isn't getting released anytime soon. And I can't see how stretching Meereen to two seasons would be good for the show, in the book it's made a little more exciting by seeing all these other characters homing in on her just as things are getting to the climax. I think a whole season of Meereen with STILL no link to the other plots would be too much for some viewers.

[Ser Loudmouth]

I never really bought this line of reasoning. I think by now TV viewers are quite aware this isn't your standard good-guys-versus-bad-guys show, and hopefully the RW will make for incredible television. So surely they'll be more likely to tune in to Season 4, not less. Besides, the show didn't lose viewers to Ned's death, it gained them.

-I think that compared to their victim, both Walder Frey and Roose Bolton can be safely classified as "bad guys". And wat's important, they are far less sympathetic then Robb, because the show (unlike the books) spent little time developping their character. So when those two kill fan-favourite Robb Stark, there will be outrage

-Ned's death was followed imediately by the "King in the North" episode, and it was clear that the Starks had the momentum. The Red Wedding is not just the death of a proeminent Stark, it's the end of House Stark s a player. Game over!

I don't think the producers are particularly fussed about the exact chronology, considering the plots don't really interact.

At some point all the different plots do inteact, and then it is important to get the chronology right, or else there will be plotholes. In case of Dany, the show (because of the world map) makes it much more ovoius than the books how far away she is, and thus it is important to allwo for a lag betwen her doing something and people in westeros react to it.

The trouble is your plans leave gaps that we don't have material to fill them with: if Euron sends Victarion east at the end of 4, there's only two Victarion chapters left after that and Winds isn't getting released anytime soon. And I can't see how stretching Meereen to two seasons would be good for the show, in the book it's made a little more exciting by seeing all these other characters homing in on her just as things are getting to the climax. I think a whole season of Meereen with STILL no link to the other plots would be too much for some viewers.

Season 5 will only be filmed in two years from now, and if book 6 is still not out, the producers can ask GRRM for directions. I fully envision season 5 ending with stuff from book 6, because neither Dany nor Victarion have a really satisfying end to their story arc in book 5.

As for "stertching" Mereen: I envision Dany taking the city at the end of season 3 (or first episode of season 4 at the latest). Then she spends season 4 trying to rule it and dealing with political intrigue (imilar to Ned or Tyrion in King's Landing in the first seasons). Then in season 5 the visitors from Westeros start to appear and she has to deal with them. It's a new and different plotline. Quentin arrives in the first episode, then Tyrion arrives halfway throuth the season, and then Victarion towards the end (where the stuff from book 6 will be included).

[gogorath]

There is some circumstantial evidence (like Jack Gleeson wanting to go to colege, he might not sign for a 4-th season). Besides, it makes no sense to end a season with the Red Wedding: it's anticlimatic and viewers might leave the show if it looks like the "bad guys" have won.

Also, even if season 3 does indeed end with the RW, there is still less then a half or the book left for season 4, since the RW was after the midway point.

I don't want to get into a semantics argument about what constitutes evidence and conjecture, because, really, what's the point? Gleeson is actually currently in college (he's 20-21), and I believe his quote was about pursuing graduate school. I'm not sure one more half season of filming (a month or so) would really be a deal-breaker for him.

That said, not bringing him back would free up some money (though he's probably not in the upper half in terms of pay), and I get the argument that they will want a draw in Episode 10 to pull people into the next season. I just think going from RW to PW that quickly is unlikely. One of the reasons for the 20 episode allotment to (more or less) Storm is to allow the pacing they'd like. They are going to want to dwell a bit on the RW, I'd think. It's possible it moves to episode six or something -- and then I could see it. But if it is Episode 9, having the PW in Episode 10 would be awful unless they actually did them simultaneously -- a significant change but it could look amazing.

Dany taking Mereen can't be that late. There is a chronology somewhere on this site proving that the Dany chapters actually happen earlier then their place in the books. So the taking of Mereen should probably be the end of season 3, not 4. Besides, if Dany spends one season taking Astapor and another taking Mereen, the material will be stretched and it will look like the show is recycling plots. Better to have Dany try to rule Mereen in season 4 (ending with the armistice and her wedding) and in season 5 she can start to recieve visitors from Westeros.

Huh? Even if the book chronology is technically that, even Martin recognized the story needed telling over two very long books. Why would you compress it? Astapor, Yunkai, Mereen and all that comes with it -- Daario, Barristan, Jorah's betrayal, etc., into one season? That really doesn't make any sense and it won't happen.

Dance is now straddling four and five? I love Dany's story in Dance, but why would you compress all that happens in Storm just to stretch out the Dance storyline across 2-3 seasons. It doesn't make any sense and I'm all but certain that's not what'll happen.

For the same purpose I would end season 4 with Euron sending Victarion east (remember, Balon dies very early in book 3, so the Kingsmoot has most likely already happened by the time it ends, even if we only read about it in the next book) and with Doran's "fire and blood" speech.

That's again, waaay too late. Remember, Jon gets elected lord commander shortly after the battle at the wall, which happens roughly at the same time as the purple wedding, so early season 4 at most. Besides, Jon needs to send Sam south allready, or else his story will be lagging behind other characters.

You are way too obsessed with actual chronology, if those are even true. The primary focus of the storywriters is to having the story have a season arc and pacing that makes sense. Smashing Jon's storyline to complete early Season 4 makes little sense from a storytelling standpoint. Or Martin would have done it that way in the book.

[Ser Loudmouth]

That said, not bringing him back would free up some money (though he's probably not in the upper half in terms of pay), and I get the argument that they will want a draw in Episode 10 to pull people into the next season. I just think going from RW to PW that quickly is unlikely. One of the reasons for the 20 episode allotment to (more or less) Storm is to allow the pacing they'd like.

To my knowledge, there is no confirmation that book 3 will have 20 episoede alotted to it, just that it will take more then 10. Personally, I would have hoped to see the book split neatly in two and the RW itself delayed until season 4, but the current pace of the series seems to indicate otherwise, and we have to be realistic about it.

Huh? Even if the book chronology is technically that, even Martin recognized the story needed telling over two very long books. Why would you compress it?

Books 3, 4 and 5 have many episodes where one event si told form different points of view in quick succession, and this takes up much space on the page, but can be handled in much lesser time onscreen.

Astapor, Yunkai, Mereen and all that comes with it -- Daario, Barristan, Jorah's betrayal, etc., into one season? That really doesn't make any sense and it won't happen.

1episode, discussion on the ship and decision to land in astapor, 1 episode of negotiation, next one the conquest of Astapor, and negotiating the surrender of Yunkai cant take more then 1 episode too. Even if the siege of Mereen with all that it involves (Barristan's reveal, Jorah's disgrace, etc...) takes 3 more episodes, there's still only 7 episodes in total, out of a 10 episode season. No need to extnd that story beyond one season, or else it will get repetitive (Dany conquers one slaver city, Dany conquers another slaver city, ... the public will get bored) At least out of Dance we can get two differnet storylines.

Dance is now straddling four and five? I love Dany's story in Dance, but why would you compress all that happens in Storm just to stretch out the Dance storyline across 2-3 seasons.

It would be more like 1,5 seasons. The end of season 5 would include stuff from Winds (mostly because Dany's arc in Dance looks incomplete)

Allso, remember that as the story progresses, more and more characters are introduced, so each of them will have less and less screentime allocated to them. A story that could be told in 5 episodes in season 3 could need 10 episodes by the time of season 5 because the that character has to compete with screen time with many others.

You are way too obsessed with actual chronology, if those are even true. The primary focus of the storywriters is to having the story have a season arc and pacing that makes sense.

I have no problem with shuffling storylines around, as long as it does not afect the interaction of those storylines.

Smashing Jon's storyline to complete early Season 4 makes little sense from a storytelling standpoint. Or Martin would have done it that way in the book.

It's not smashing, it's preserving the integrity of the storyline by not stretching it too much.

[gogorath]

They chose to do Storm over two seasons because they felt it was too big. Your idea basically undoes most of that decision. It also seemingly doesn't account for any real culmination of Season4. Do you really think that's how D&D are going to do it?

You seem to be uniformly accelerating the storyline's base across the board. I haven't really seen a reason for it -- and "preserving the integrity of the storyline" doesn't mean anything in and of itself. Why speed everything up? Jon has a perfectly paced storyline for next season -- him choosing between staying with the NW and going over to the Wildlings with a real decision point (Queenscrown) and climax (the assault on the wall from the South). There's plenty of plot before it -0- Jon and Ygritte, Jon and Mance, climbing the wall, the Giants, etc. There's plenty of time to have Jon wrestle with his conscience. Why smash that to get in two battles in Season 3 (which they probably can't afford anyway). What waiting after that -- Jon being named LC and the riverting debates with Stannis?

I guess I don't see the point of rushing Storm only to have the series end faster. The pacing, so far, if anything, has been too fast. There's not enough time spent on many of the characters. Why would we rush from plot point to plot point?

The good news for me is that there's no indication that HBO or D&D want to rush this and finish Feast and Dance by the end of Season 5. In fact, if anything, all the available evidence shows the opposite. Martin's discussions with them leads him to believe he can finish the series more or less at the same time (which wouldn't even be a little feasible if parts of the Winds adaptation were being written in 2014). D&D have said they are adapting the whole series, but they've also said that Storm will be split between 3/4. The basics of storytelling doesn't allow for very many good climaxes to the end of Season 4 in your scenario, though the end of Storm has plenty. And lastly, if HBO is making money on this, they have no incentive to cut it short.

[Arkash]

It is more logic if they take their time and really put everything at their pace:

So the series will last longer, which is excellent both for us and HBO.

GRRM got some more time ahead of him to write.

It's more fun.

[DaveSumm]

I think splitting the books is probably less of a problem than juggling the number of characters we'll have by then. If Season 5 is something along the lines of Feast and the adjoining part of Dance, then just the POV characters are Aeron, Areo, Cersei, Brienne, Samwell, Arya, Jaime, Sansa, Asha/Yara, Arys, Victarion, Arianne, Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon, Bran, Quentyn, Davos, Jon, Theon, Jon Connington and Melissandre. When you look at that list, there's probably quite a good shout for making three seasons out of these books. But then I guess the problem remains of where you break them up...

[Ser Loudmouth]

You seem to be uniformly accelerating the storyline's base across the board.

The pacing, so far, if anything, has been too fast.

I agree that the pacing has been too fast, but I am projecting the story continuing at the same speed throughout the remaining seasons. In order to do season 4 as you want it, the producers would heve to "brake" at some point (which has it's own difficulties)

[oierem]

The general consensus amongst non-readers is that the series is rather slow-paced.

Even most readers agree that the first half of each season has been "slow" (yet, ironically, they want it to be slower?)

The "problem" is that the books are really slow-paced: there are a lot of pages, a lot of descriptions, travelling, backstories, dialogue... but the actual plot progresses very slowly. That's easier to accept in a book than in a TV series, where you need each character to have an arc each season.

[Gaius Martell]

The problem is setting up enough of an arc for each season.

Season 3 can have the following:

-Robb buildup to Red Wedding

-Tyrion with being Master of Coin, Singer's Stew, end with Sansa marriage in episode 10 as a balance to Red Wedding in episode 9. Sansa does the stuff with Dontos (or Littlefinger), has some more neat dialogue with Shae, stuff with the QoT, ending in the same spot.

-Stannis with the leeches, deaths of Balon and Robb, attempts to kill Edric Storm, end with getting on a ship... (We must meet Selyse and Shireen, intro to greyscale)

-Jon with Mance, climbing the wall, Queenscrown, battle of Castle Black episode 7, death of Ygritte, preparations for the wildling attack which begins at the end of episode 10.

-Arya and Ghost of High Heart, BwB, the Hound, gets to Red Wedding.

-Bran - Meets Reeds, splits up with Osha/ Rickon, Queenscrown warging Hodor for the first time in addition to saving Jon.

-Sam - Fist of the First Men conclusion, return to Craster's; mutiny. Escape with Gilly, meets Coldhands for the end of his arc.

-Jaime/ Brienne - Battle on the river, please. Meet Roose Bolton somewhere to "send regards," Bloody Mummers, take their bath together. Not quite to King's Landing yet at the end.

-Dany - Meet "Arstan," get on boats, Jorah's like "hey, Unsullied!" Astapor + Dracarys, putting advisors in place, meeting with the sellsword companies of Yunkai.

-Theon and Ramsay must have a discussion here. He can have a scene early and toward the middle of the season, with his first flaying occuring here.

This leaves for season 4:

-Tyrion meets Oberyn, good times ensue. Purple Wedding, Tyrion's trial, time in jail till Jaime lets him out. Death of Tywin. End with Tyrion on a boat for Pentos.

-Sansa not liking Tyrion, post Purple Wedding escape with LF. Vale time with Robert Arryn and Aunt Lysa. Introduction between moon door and Lysa.

-Jon with the battle of the Wall, Stannis to the rescue. Lord Commander vote. Jon can start talking with Mel about the danger he is in and begin preparations for winter.

-Stannis battle with wildlings. Tries and fails to get northern support. Sends Davos to White Harbor.

-Arya up to Saltpans, "Is there gold in the village?" "death" of the Hound, gets on boat for Braavos, says the words "Valar Morghulis" and is shown an ebony and weirwood door.

-Bran and Sam meet up, door at the Nightfort. Bran meets Coldhands. Sam goes to rig the vote, gets sent off to Oldtown with Gilly, Aemon, and random-guy-who-he-punches.

-Jaime and Brienne get to King's Landing just as the Purple Wedding is over. Sex in the sept with Cersei. Conversation with Tyrion when he's in jail. Conversation with Loras about how he reminds him of himself at that age. Sends Brienne on her journey with Oathkeeper.

-Dany - Battle of Yunkai, love triangle with Jorah and Daario. Arstan's big reveal. Suicide mission of Jorah and Barristan, battle of Meereen for end of season. Sending Jorah into exile for her last scene.

-Theon and Kyra's escape plan, action, failure. More flayings and beatings.

-We should get a scene with Osha taking Rickon to Skagos, telling him (and us) a bit about the place, so we know what's up.

-LADY STONEHEART.

-With the introduction of Oberyn, we can also start the Dornish saga this season, meeting Arianne/ Arys, and learning about Doran and the Sand Snakes, particularly after Oberyn's death. Finish the season with something like "Well, by Dornish law, the secondborn is next in line for the throne." A bit climactic to see a new player that doesn't particularly like the Lannisters.

Season 5 would be the beginning of all the arcs that haven't been mentioned yet in Feast and Dance:

-Tyrion at Illyrio's, being taken to JonCon and company. Gets to learn cyvasse or whatever, figures out that Aegon is Aegon. Greyscale reminder, Tyrion's near drowning and JonCon's rescue. Volantis, ending with Tyrion being abducted by Jorah in the brothel.

-Davos at White Harbor, death scare. Make Wyman Manderly a fatass badass, please. "The North remembers," Davos sent to Skagos.

-Jon letting the Wildlings through, giving Stannis advice. Stannis recruits mountain clans. Melisandre keeps warning Jon, notices she sees him as AA. "Fetch me a block," Stannis attacks Deepwood Motte. Jon sends Mance to Winterfell when he learns Mel didn't burn him.

-Arya begins her FM training, meets Sam, time as Cat of the Canals, ends with becoming blind.

-Bran fighting wights warged as Hodor, makes it to Bloodraven, starts his training to become a tree.

-Sam in Braavos, Aemon getting sick, punches dude in the face, get on boats for Oldtown, end with death of Aemon. Also, some "fat pink mast" action.

-Jaime getting more and more pissed at Cersei, heads to Riverrun. Burns Cersei's letter.

-Cersei is a terrible politician, evidenced in every episode. End with her arrest by the High Septon.

-Brienne's arc to it's fruition; adventures with Pod, Nimble Dick, Hyle Hunt, the Bloody Mummers again, ending with her capture by Stoneheart and being ordered to be hanged.

-Dany as queen of Meereen. Drogon eating kids, chaining of dragons, marriage to Hizdahr. Meets Quentyn. I don't think a climax can fit in here without rushing Tyrion and Quentyn; maybe Ben Plumm's betrayal? Dany's story is most likely to get the "Qarth treatment," where much is ass-pulled.

-Arianne's plot fails; Doran brings her up to speed on the marriage pact, tells her that about Quentyn being on a ship. Quentyn makes it to Meereen and fails in his proposal.

-Theon is now Reek; Moat Cailin, we see Roose for first time since Red Wedding. Talk about marriage to "Arya," cue Jeyne Poole or equivalent turning up in Winterfell. First time we see Winterfell after the burning. End this arc with the marriage, Frey Pie, Mance in Winterfell.

-Kingsmoot on Iron Islands; full introduction to Aeron, Victarion, Euron, and their screwed up relationships. Asha's attempt fails, as does Vic's (who we should be shown to be a badass a la Stannis in Blackwater, so he's likeable for the audience) so we have Urine Euron King. Battle on Shield Islands, Euron sends Vic to get some dragons. Asha heads back to Deepwood Motte and ends with losing battle against Stannis.

---

I think this is sufficient for everything up through season five, making each arc rather self-contained and reasonable for the timeframe of ten episodes. Season six would have everything else from Dance that hasn't come up yet (since all of the Feast storylines are finished other than Sam reaching Oldtown) and will also necessitate some Winds of Winter action to make good television. Battle of Winterfell, Sam in Oldtown, whatever Aeron is up to.

(Edit for ease of readability in a rather long post.)

[gogorath]

The general consensus amongst non-readers is that the series is rather slow-paced.

What basis do you have for this? The critics are pretty universal in saying that the pacing is much too fast -- we don't spend enough time with each character. Practically speaking, most of my non-reader friends agree -- we don't learn enough about each of the characters and you barely get to know many of them. Like Stannis or Davos this year. HBO dramas, like the books, are targeted at people who like character development. Sopranos was relatively slow (one thing would happen an episode at best). Mad Men has very little happen. This kind of character show is what a lot of people -- and HBO's target -- are looking for. GoT won't lose the plot, but right now there's not enough time for seeing the characters when there isn't a major plotpoint. Those scenes are often people's favorites.

Anyway, Storm has a ridiculous amount of plot and we add another slew of 10+ characters. They will again struggle to get everything in, even with 20 episodes.

[protar]

I don't think having Dany ruling Meereen for 2 seasons is a good idea. No character should be doing the same thing over multiple seasons. So S3 would have Dany in Astapor, ending with her getting the Unsullied (I believe there is plenty of material in Astapor to adapt especially if Daario is introduced here and we start the season meeting Barristan.) Then S4 can be her conquest of Meereen (no Yunkai.). S5 should absolutely end on Dany flying away on Drogon. Otherwise we get 2 seasons of Dany ruling Meereen, two seasons of Tyrion travelling towards her, two seasons of Jon as LC etc. Pacing needs to be taken into account. Then S6 can finish up on the battes of ice and fire which were intended as the climaxes for ADWD anyway, so it makes sense for the show to rectify this.

[Gaius Martell]

S5 should absolutely end on Dany flying away on Drogon. Otherwise we get 2 seasons of Dany ruling Meereen, two seasons of Tyrion travelling towards her, two seasons of Jon as LC etc. Pacing needs to be taken into account.

The problem with doing this is that it rushes Tyrion, Quentyn, Victarion, JonCon, and their respective supporting casts. I don't think it is plausible to get through Meereen in one season and do justice to the other important plots revolving around it. This causes more pacing issues than it aids. Dany flying away would be a good cliffhanger, but it works just as well mid-season. Think about Theon killing the miller's boys in S2E6. That was amazing for non-readers. Everyone wonders where she is, we don't see her for at least one episode, Barristan wonders what to do about Hizdahr, Quentyn tries to tame the dragons, Tyrion goes to Ben Plumm. In episode 9, we can see Dany again finally. She's alive, flying around on Drogon eating sheep. This would be satisfactory, especially if season five takes her up to her marriage with Hizdahr and the fallout with Daario, assuming their love story is well-done.