[Spoilers] Stark Revenge Possibilities are growing lesser and lesser...

[Artos Stark]

Not only are there still plenty of Starks alive, they are actually in pretty good shape if you think about it.

Arya is safe and sound with the FM, she will likely come back into the fold and kill quite a few people before its over.

Sansa is as safe as you can get in the Vale. She is most likely going to marry Harry (Arryn) and become lady of the Vale which comes with a HUGE army.

Bran is not only safe with the children of the corn (even though I don't think he comes back, I do think he sends Hodor back and wargs into him to fight), but he is pretty much all knowing and all seeing at this point in time.

Rickon is on Skagos and I think is making friends and gaining allies with the lords there. Not only that be he is headed back to White Harbor soon to join with the Manderlys. Once this happens the rest of the North will rally behind him, there are still massive amounts of troops in the North and most of them will rally to Rickon.

Jon has a massive army at his back (I don't believe he is dead) which includes wildlings, Giants, NW, etc. and his hell bent on destroying the Boltons.

Once the Starks come back together which we all know they will, the rest of the realm better watch out. They still have MASSIVE armies at their backs as well as giants.

[HannibalStark]

On an unrelated note... am I a bad person if I would have worked together with Renly or Littlefinger in A Game of Thrones? When Renly said to sieze Tommen and Myrcella, and Littlefinger said to put Joffrey on the throne and bid their time? I mean, it just seems logical to me. Littlefinger's plan was better, because I generally don't like fighting, and so I would have just put Joffrey on the throne, but I don't trust Littlefinger much so I would have probaby gone with Renly.

I think what got the Starks into trouble, by being honorable and in many ways naive in that they aren't scheming or playing the Game of Thrones, will eventually put them back on top...

[Lummel]

...I believe that if the norrh reunited despite their arguments (take Karstark and Stark for exampel) under one common goal-vengeance-, then they would wipe out the Lannisters.

why should they do that? The Lannisters like the Starks were played by Littlefinger and probably to an extent by Varys.

Anyhow after five books of ASOIAF don't you get the feeling that violence just begets violence?

[Castel]

The north cannot defend itself against the others without Winterfell. Winterfell must always have a Stark. If the North falls to the others then the rest of Westeros will soon follow because no southerner can conquer the north, especially a north controlled by supernatural beings with zombie armies. Assuming the Others will be defeated, it will take a Stark to do it so therefore the Starks cannot all be wiped out or else there will be no Westeros.

I don't follow the logic here. Winterfell is standing. I think some weird amplification happens in fandoms sometimes. Cat could have simply meant it as an administrative thing, after all, you don't leave your house empty when people are running around in it. Not to mention that Cat of all people would have little to no understanding of any magical reasons- of which we have seen none.

I don't buy this argument, there's a huge leap of logic.

[Caelestis]

As someone else said in this thread, the Stark's chances for revenge are becoming slimmer by the book, not because they're in such a bad position, but because their enemies are being destroyed all of their own accord.

Robb's fall was an enormous blow, but the Stark childrens' sheer survival under such desperate circumstances is a hopeful sign: Sansa is set to become a major player politically; regardless of whether she joins the Faceless Men or not, Arya is gaining the best survival skills of them all; Bran's power as a Greenseer will soon be massive and Rickon is set to inherit Winterfell.

While I suspect that there may be one more death among the Starks (I too am not certain that this is the last we'll see of Jon), I cannot imagine that the Starks will die out after GRRM has gone through all this trouble to have them all learn and grow so much.

However, the brilliant, but also frustrating thing that GRRM is doing is that he refuses to deliver us a traditional revenge: most of the Starks won't get the chance to hand-out some justice (and the last one that tried failed), because the ones that wronged them are destroying each other:

- It was Joffrey's own cruelty that led to the Tyrell's killing him, for the sake of Margaery.

- The Freys are paying one by one for the atrocity committed at the Red Wedding.

- Roose Bolton's attempt to usurp the Starks' place as rulers of the North is backfiring and may cost him everything.

- Tywin got his just reward for his constant mistreatment of Tyrion and the rape of Tysha.

- Cersei's self-destruction is the most of elaborate of them all: after committing so many wrongs, she has alienated almost every ally she might have had (Jaime most of all) and her quest for power will probably be the death of her and her remaining children.

- Jaime has lost his hand and his pride as a swordsman: a fitting price to pay for shoving Bran out of the window and his past arrogance that led him to do everything on impulse, such as attacking Eddard and his men.

- Theon, of course, has already suffered immensely for betraying Robb, taking Winterfell and the deaths of the miller's boys.

Their own karma is coming back to bite them and I have no doubt that many of the Starks's remaining enemies like Littlefinger will suffer a similar fate, whether they will fall to the Starks personally (such as Janos Slynt to Jon, or the people on Arya's list) or through their own crimes.

[Maester Zoidberg]

I think what got the Starks into trouble, by being honorable and in many ways naive in that they aren't scheming or playing the Game of Thrones, will eventually put them back on top...

Wouldn't that be quite the atypical return to the standard fantasy trope that the honourable will win out in the end, even through some terrible hardships? I think it will become quite nasty before the end, and the Starks will need to learn to play the game (like Arya and to some extent Sansa already did; we'll see what tricks Bran will learn and Rickons new friends might have some 'bad' influence on him as well) and play it well to retake their place. They will have to forsake such ideals to survive, which I suspect will be part of the "bittersweet" feeling of the ending Martin predicted.

[BloodOfTheNorth]

My guess is that the Starks will have their vengeance, but in a most unexpected way, like with the help of the others and it's gonna be a bitter-sweet vengeance. All in all I think only 1 true Stark will be left at the end, Rickon.

• Jon is Snow and with the NW
  
• Sansa will be a schemer and play the game, that got her father killed(=not the Stark way)
  
• Bran is into tree-voodoo now
  
• Arya is an assassin, even if not with the FM, I don't see her being a descendant of the noble House Stark
  

So. I put my money on Rickon.

[HannibalStark]

Wouldn't that be quite the atypical return to the standard fantasy trope that the honourable will win out in the end, even through some terrible hardships? I think it will become quite nasty before the end, and the Starks will need to learn to play the game (like Arya and to some extent Sansa already did; we'll see what tricks Bran will learn and Rickons new friends might have some 'bad' influence on him as well) and play it well to retake their place. They will have to forsake such ideals to survive, which I suspect will be part of the "bittersweet" feeling of the ending Martin predicted.

I don't think they are done taking their lumps by any means...I just don't think the Starks will stoop to doing the things the other families/people are doing. But maybe you are right, I personally would rather see the rest of the Starks all survive if it means they have to do some back stabbing or conniving. Sansa and Arya have certainly scene a shit ton of ugly already, maybe it will be the Stark women who bring the Starks back into the fold after so many life lessons.

[Kittykatknits]

As someone else said in this thread, the Stark's chances for revenge are becoming slimmer by the book, not because they're in such a bad position, but because their enemies are being destroyed all of their own accord.

Robb's fall was an enormous blow, but the Stark childrens' sheer survival under such desperate circumstances is a hopeful sign: Sansa is set to become a major player politically; regardless of whether she joins the Faceless Men or not, Arya is gaining the best survival skills of them all; Bran's power as a Greenseer will soon be massive and Rickon is set to inherit Winterfell.

While I suspect that there may be one more death among the Starks (I too am not certain that this is the last we'll see of Jon), I cannot imagine that the Starks will die out after GRRM has gone through all this trouble to have them all learn and grow so much.

However, the brilliant, but also frustrating thing that GRRM is doing is that he refuses to deliver us a traditional revenge: most of the Starks won't get the chance to hand-out some justice (and the last one that tried failed), because the ones that wronged them are destroying each other:

- It was Joffrey's own cruelty that led to the Tyrell's killing him, for the sake of Margaery.

- The Freys are paying one by one for the atrocity committed at the Red Wedding.

- Roose Bolton's attempt to usurp the Starks' place as rulers of the North is backfiring and may cost him everything.

- Tywin got his just reward for his constant mistreatment of Tyrion and the rape of Tysha.

- Cersei's self-destruction is the most of elaborate of them all: after committing so many wrongs, she has alienated almost every ally she might have had (Jaime most of all) and her quest for power will probably be the death of her and her remaining children.

- Jaime has lost his hand and his pride as a swordsman: a fitting price to pay for shoving Bran out of the window and his past arrogance that led him to do everything on impulse, such as attacking Eddard and his men.

- Theon, of course, has already suffered immensely for betraying Robb, taking Winterfell and the deaths of the miller's boys.

Their own karma is coming back to bite them and I have no doubt that many of the Starks's remaining enemies like Littlefinger will suffer a similar fate, whether they will fall to the Starks personally (such as Janos Slynt to Jon, or the people on Arya's list) or through their own crimes.

Yes! I said much the same thing in my post. The message isn't that the Starks need to get revenge. The more accurate statement is that karma is a bitch.

[John W]

I think that the Houses of Starks and Lannisters are going to be united by a marriage. Either Tyrion's and Sansa's marriage will somehow be consummated or Mycella/Tommen will end up marrying Bran/Rickon/Arya.

The only reason I think this is because I think GRRM likes to sit back and read all the speculation by the fans and then throw a curve ball at them.

[Kittykatknits]

I think that the Houses of Starks and Lannisters are going to be united by a marriage. Either Tyrion's and Sansa's marriage will somehow be consummated or Mycella/Tommen will end up marrying Bran/Rickon/Arya.

The only reason I think this is because I think GRRM likes to sit back and read all the speculation by the fans and then throw a curve ball at them.

Martin has said numerous times that he says away from reading forums and fan sites like this just so he doesn't see what is being written, this way it won't influence him.

[Vidar]

If you read the books,and couldn't realise that time for Stark's is yet to come,you missunderstood the story and the fact that 4 of the Starks are/were point of view characters and there is no way in the world they wont be one of the strongest houses again.

[qpishaw]

Winter IS coming- Look out Lannnisters!

My best case scenerio: In the end Jon and Dany hook up , also Arya and the newest Targ boy=dragons powered by Starks.

They prevail through the winter, and spring arrives, east/west flip- prophesy fulfilled- for Dany- she and Jon along with the other 2 can now give birth to a new generation and a new king/age is born! Permanent summer!

[barbandazi]

The chances for the Stark's taking revenge on the Lannisters and their fake kings pretty much died with the red wedding. However, if Stannis manages to get the old Stark bannermen to his side and defeats the Boltons, they will get Winterfell back (most likely). I don't think any of the remaining Stark children will die, though.

[Swordsaint]

I think what the OP means is will there be any Lannister's left for the Stark's to kill?

Tywin-Dead

Kevan-Dead

Joffery-Dead

Lancel-Zombie?

Jamie-Cripple, maybe on his way to death

Cersei-Benjen will get that b*tch

Tommen-Ser Pounce will finish him off

Myrcella- Qyburn will get her when Cersei turns on him

Pretty sure Robb killed the ones I didn't name.

Later there will be an epic movie called "Tyrion, The Last Lannister"

[David C. Hunter]

Does anybody think that all of the Starks will eventually die out, in the last two books, but the Lannisters will make so many mistakes and enemies while killing the starks that eventually, Winter will come and destroy them as well? It was an idea that a friend told me, and although I think that it is unlikely, it could happen (knowing George R. R. Martin's love for creating unconventional plotlines and breaking our hearts with deaths of our favorite characters). It is hinted at in the book that King's landing wil not be able to live through a winter lthat is too long, and with the War of the Five kings damaging their food supply even more... Not to mention the large list of enemies to the Lannisters already. What do you guys think? Realy, I can't see the Starks succeeding any time soon, they just keep making mistakes that they can't make. I can only hope that Arya, Sansa, Bran and RIckon (and maybe Jon?) will learn from Catelyn, Robb, and Ned's mistakes, because right now, they are not doing so well. Do you guys think that the Starks will succeed? Have a pyhrric victory (like the one described above), where Winter kills the Lannisters, or will the Lannisters succeed?

I believe that if the norrh reunited despite their arguments (take Karstark and Stark for exampel) under one common goal-vengeance-, then they would wipe out the Lannisters.

The 6th book was orignally called a Time for Wolves. The Starks are on the rise again. There are about 73 signs that hints towards that.

[Cheese Pudding]

Jojen said

"The wolves will come again..."

Let's trust him

[John W]

Martin has said numerous times that he says away from reading forums and fan sites like this just so he doesn't see what is being written, this way it won't influence him.

Well he was recently interviewed on Laser and Sword and he talked about how fascinated he was with the way fans responded to certain characters and talked about the whole sansan thing so he must be taking a peek at what the fans are saying.

[Kittykatknits]

Well he was recently interviewed on Laser and Sword and he talked about how fascinated he was with the way fans responded to certain characters and talked about the whole sansan thing so he must be taking a peek at what the fans are saying.

I saw the same interview. He can keep in touch via his not a blog, all the conventions that he attends, and getting mail from fans. Not the same as checking out fan sites and forums to keep track of speculation.

[David C. Hunter]

The only other Starks that will potentially die is Jon Snow and Lady Stoneheart. Rickon, Bran, Arya and Sansa are there to stay, which will be alot better than most of Great Houses by the end.