Grimwolfe Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 the thing i want to know is, should they get past the wall, maybe take over the north or even westeros, then what? do they they start building white walker towns and villages? or are they simply trying to destroy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B'uckles Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 They are sooooo evil. They don't deserve a bundt cake.Harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It's irrelevant if the Others are evil or not. As it stands their goals as we see them are simply not to Westeros' benefit. You might as well ask if an Ebola virus is evil.Of course, we may be wrong and they may simply want to get past the world and go to the beach, and they just don't have a stigma against human bodies, but I doubt that's of interest to the Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayard Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 First of all, I don't see the Others as a "force of nature". They have a language, a culture, maybe even some industry to make those swords.. they know what they're doing. In only a couple of years they killed over 95% of all the wildlings . Why? we have seen that the wildlings can live and fight together with another species, the giants, so they would have probably accepted the presence of the Others, but they weren't given that option. So, they kill when they don't have to, that makes them evil all the way!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 If you want to pretend the Others aren't evil, you need to consider the relationship the Others have with all other sentient species.Obviously, they have a terrible relationship with humans that has forced a mass exodus of the Free Folk. Include to that the fact that they've also forced an exodus of giants, meaning that they've also been killing and terrorising them too. In addition, they've always warred, in the past, and at present, with the Children of the Forest. That's 0/3.Now consider that even mankind has managed co-existence with the Children of the Forest and the giants for millenia, and you begin to get an idea of the Other's genocidal tendecies eclipse even that of mankind's. The only examples we have of cooperation between Others and non-Others are the Night's King, so old a tale as to be of dubious accuracy, and Craster's sons, in which case it's not clear exactly what's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 If you want to pretend the Others aren't evil, you need to consider the relationship the Others have with all other sentient species.Obviously, they have a terrible relationship with humans that has forced a mass exodus of the Free Folk. Include to that the fact that they've also forced an exodus of giants, meaning that they've also been killing and terrorising them too. In addition, they've always warred, in the past, and at present, with the Children of the Forest. That's 0/3.Now consider that even mankind has managed co-existence with the Children of the Forest and the giants for millenia, and you begin to get an idea of the Other's genocidal tendecies eclipse even that of mankind's. The only examples we have of cooperation between Others and non-Others are the Night's King, so old a tale as to be of dubious accuracy, and Craster's sons, in which case it's not clear exactly what's happening.THIS.Seriously the notion of the others being "misunderstood" or anything other than a force for malevolence is absurd. They kill humans, giants, children of the forest, it doesnt matter they seem to make war with sentient life than reanimate their enemes dead(necromancy is always a sign of not being evil right guys?!) then they use said reanimated corpses for more war. Tell me that's not evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 THIS.Seriously the notion of the others being "misunderstood" or anything other than a force for malevolence is absurd. They kill humans, giants, children of the forest, it doesnt matter they seem to make war with sentient life than reanimate their enemes dead(necromancy is always a sign of not being evil right guys?!) then they use said reanimated corpses for more war. Tell me that's not evil.Well, I wouldn't invite them without a slight doubt into my house ... but why is their way of fighting more evil than what others (such as humans) do to heir own species and to other species? We humans fight with gas, with germs that make you sick. We recruit children to fight wars. We drop bombs on other people that cause defects to the genes of children that are not born yet. We kill innocent people because we believe our gods tell us to do so. Why is this not evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Not to mention that necromancy is a weird thing to hold against them since they probably don't have an instinctual disgust for dead human bodies like we do. I'd imagine that other species would find our wearing mink and leather weird, even if they felt perfectly natural to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Well, I wouldn't invite them without a slight doubt into my house ... but why is their way of fighting more evil than what others (such as humans) do to heir own species and to other species? We humans fight with gas, with germs that make you sick. We recruit children to fight wars. We drop bombs on other people that cause defects to the genes of children that are not born yet. We kill innocent people because we believe our gods tell us to do so. Why is this not evil?Because human societies in ASOIAF have found a way to co-exist with other sentient races (the giants, the COTF) that does not involve genocide.The Others demonstrably have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Because human societies in ASOIAF have found a way to co-exist with other sentient races (the giants, the COTF) that does not involve genocide.The Others demonstrably have not.Eh ... the Children of the Forest were persecuted, as I recall. in an attempt to eradicate them and their gods from Westeros. And I remember a chapter with the song of what men did to the giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Eh ... the Children of the Forest were persecuted, as I recall. in an attempt to eradicate them and their gods from Westeros. And I remember a chapter with the song of what men did to the giants.But ultimately, the humans and the COTF, and the humans and the Giants, made peace, practised diplomacy, and the humans stop trying to eradciate them. The proof is in the pudding; the COTF and the giants still exist because humans didn't keep trying to wipe them out after their war was over.The Others have never, ever made an attempt at diplomacy with any of the three races in their 8000 year history, and have only practiced a strategy whereby they attempt to wipe every sentient race from the planet.That's why they're evil. Not to mention, they've killed every living animal, intelligent or not, that they find, which humans don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The Others have never, ever made an attempt at diplomacy with any of the three races in their 8000 year history, and have only practiced a strategy whereby they attempt to wipe every sentient race from the planet.If so, the good people of Westeros shouldn't be afraid, because the white walkers seem to be not very effective lately :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 If so, the good people of Westeros shouldn't be afraid, because the white walkers seem to be not very effective lately :cool4:Well, they've got enough of a harvest laid by to last them three years in most places.The last long night lasted a generation. If the current winter lasts even half that long, the people in Westeros are fucked with a capital f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Just to play the Devil's Advocate to a pretty straightforward topic: how do we know that they want to wipe out humanity? They've shown aggression at the men beyond the wall, but that may be because they consider themselves trapped by said species and are trying to find their way out or prevent someone stopping them.Hell, we don't even know what happened during the long night or Azor Ahai's reign. I contend that the whole thing is malicious slander by humans that trapped the Others in the north and refused to let them enjoy the rest of the world. They simply wrote the stories in their favor. It's telling that there's only one perspective hmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 That's why they're evil. Not to mention, they've killed every living animal, intelligent or not, that they find, which humans don't.Well, as said, it is nice to have an enemy that does evil things, I doubt every living animal in sight was killed and wightified though. We haven't seen wightified rabbits, mice or - thankfully - fleas or lice. Man has some record to be not to picky in what it kills. I doubt the napalm that was dropped in the vicinity of those villages in Vietnam did not kill all the animals that happened to be on that spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Well, as said, it is nice to have an enemy that does evil things, I doubt every living animal in sight was killed and wightified though. We haven't seen wightified rabbits, mice or - thankfully - fleas or lice. Man has some record to be not to picky in what it kills. I doubt the napalm that was dropped in the vicinity of those villages in Vietnam did not kill all the animals that happened to be on that spot.In your given example, man negotiated with man at the Paris Peace Accords in 1973 to end the violence.The Others have negotiated with nobody ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Because human societies in ASOIAF have found a way to co-exist with other sentient races (the giants, the COTF) that does not involve genocide.The Others demonstrably have not.The First Men and Andals attempted to wipe out the CotF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The First Men and Andals attempted to wipe out the CotF.And the COTF attempted to kill men. But men and COTF eventually stopped killing each other and negotiated. Because non-evil sentient species eventually do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 But ultimately, the humans and the COTF, and the humans and the Giants, made peace, practised diplomacy, and the humans stop trying to eradciate them. The proof is in the pudding; the COTF and the giants still exist because humans didn't keep trying to wipe them out after their war was over.The Others have never, ever made an attempt at diplomacy with any of the three races in their 8000 year history, and have only practiced a strategy whereby they attempt to wipe every sentient race from the planet.That's why they're evil. Not to mention, they've killed every living animal, intelligent or not, that they find, which humans don't.We don't actually know that though. We've got the stories about the Long Night and such from certain human POVs. We all know how Martin likes the unreliable narrator device. Do I think the Others want to hug kittens and sit down for tea. No. However, I will argue we don't know enough about their motivations to slap the label "evil" on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Associate Maester Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 And the COTF attempted to kill men. But men and COTF eventually stopped killing each other and negotiated. Because non-evil sentient species eventually do that.After the CotF were almost wiped out. And they seemed to get the shiny prize of living beyond the Wall. And we just don't know if any attempts were made to broker a deal between the Others and humans (I'm not arguing for or against that premise). We just don't have enough information to make assumptions about certain things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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