jon tarkaryen Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 a figurehead does not "stand" on the Prow of a ship so much as it IS the Prow of a ship, or at least is part of it. But your right to point out that it couldn't possibly be Silence, so again, no EURON. my $.10 but it could be Victarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtland Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 but it could be Victarion. Could be? Sure, I have allowed that one from my first post. I don't really think it is, but he is as good a candidate as any at this point, and better than most Cough Euron Cough. But I don't think that the Corpse is supposed to be a figurehead. my $.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 If someone can show that it more likely than not that it's NOT a Greyjoy, either by showing me that there is a flaw in my analysis, or by adding points that I have neglected, feel free, but otherwise, I will remain convinced. I feel the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bog_Devil_of_Crannog Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 But I don't think that the Corpse is supposed to be a figurehead. I don't pretend to know one way or another, I'm just speculating along with everyone else. I was in the Euron camp, until this recent thought of it actually describing the ship's figurehead, and not a person. I think it works, or at least isn't easily disproven at this juncture. We have textual evidence that they use bright stones to decorate the eyes of the figurehead. We know that most ships have them (Even the description of Cersei's new ships, they talk of adding one in her likeness -so it doesn't neccesarily point to a Greyjoy) Grey is the color of weathered wood. A figurehead does indeed stand upon a prow of a ship, which fits the text. So my guess would be a carved corpse figurehead, which looks to be smiling sadly. I sort of like the idea, all told...And if it holds serve, it can't be Euron, due to Silence's Lady having no mouth. I can't be any more wrong than 95% of everyone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon tarkaryen Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Could be? Sure, I have allowed that one from my first post. I don't really think it is, but he is as good a candidate as any at this point, and better than most Cough Euron Cough. But I don't think that the Corpse is supposed to be a figurehead. my $.10 OK,so who is it in your opinion?? you was always just telling us who that isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtland Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 OK,so who is it in your opinion?? you was always just telling us who that isn't. I honestly haven't made up my mind. You see I am afraid that once I do I will start ignoring other important things in my desire to make the prophecies fit the story as I think it will happen. based on the evidence I know who we can rule out: Its not Brienne, or much to my sorrow Coldhands, our Euron. I also don't think its Theon, simply because he seems like such a longshot (He is a prisoner of the Boltons, Euron is in charge of the ironborn...yeah). The problem is that we don't even have an accurate or complete list of who is on their way to Dany yet. SOme people, like the other Jon, have suggested that the mummer's dragon will be lie she has to "Slay". What if the corpse in the boat and the Mummer's Dragon are destined to be the same person? That would certainly explain them being a corpse once Dany realizes that they are not who they claim to be. That would probably point us to AUrane Waters. Not terribly probable, but heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon tarkaryen Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 I honestly haven't made up my mind. You see I am afraid that once I do I will start ignoring other important things in my desire to make the prophecies fit the story as I think it will happen. based on the evidence I know who we can rule out: Its not Brienne, or much to my sorrow Coldhands, our Euron. I also don't think its Theon, simply because he seems like such a longshot (He is a prisoner of the Boltons, Euron is in charge of the ironborn...yeah). The problem is that we don't even have an accurate or complete list of who is on their way to Dany yet. SOme people, like the other Jon, have suggested that the mummer's dragon will be lie she has to "Slay". What if the corpse in the boat and the Mummer's Dragon are destined to be the same person? That would certainly explain them being a corpse once Dany realizes that they are not who they claim to be. That would probably point us to AUrane Waters. Not terribly probable, but heh. Dead Sailor and Mummer's Dragon are the same? well possible but again there are dosens of theorys who Mummer's Dragon is.then Ill remake the question.who do you think the Mummer's Dragon is?? I seriously doubt its Aurane Waters. Im still holding on more or less that Sailor is Victarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtland Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Dead Sailor and Mummer's Dragon are the same? well possible but again there are dosens of theorys who Mummer's Dragon is.then Ill remake the question.who do you think the Mummer's Dragon is?? I seriously doubt its Aurane Waters. Im still holding on more or less that Sailor is Victarion. I don't necessarily think its Aurane water either, though if we link corpse boy with the mummers dragon it makes sense. The Mummer's Dragon I think is pretty hard to narrow down. I don't think it can be Varyss because while argueably a Mummer he is definitely not a dragon. I am sure it will be somekind of targaryen or valyrian pretender, or maybee one who pretends to be an ally of Dany but turns out to be false. But since we know that they aren't with her yet... Very hard to say. my $.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon tarkaryen Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 I don't necessarily think its Aurane water either, though if we link corpse boy with the mummers dragon it makes sense. The Mummer's Dragon I think is pretty hard to narrow down. I don't think it can be Varyss because while argueably a Mummer he is definitely not a dragon. I am sure it will be somekind of targaryen or valyrian pretender, or maybee one who pretends to be an ally of Dany but turns out to be false. But since we know that they aren't with her yet... Very hard to say. my $.10 well Mummer's Dragon...thats probably some false Targaryen....but Aurane is not Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtland Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 well Mummer's Dragon...thats probably some false Targaryen....but Aurane is not Targaryen. NO he isn't. But even Cersei mentions that he looks alot like rhaegar...I think the operative part is Mummer's or false Targaryen,as in being a pretender. Again I don't necessarily think that that is what will happen, I am just throwing it out there. my $.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Aurane probably looks to old to pretend to be Aegon, if that is who the mummer's dragon will pretend to be. Though there are young-looking 22-year olds and old looking 17 year olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 He doesn't have to pretend to be Aegon... being a bastard is more believable and easier than being someone who is widely known to have died in front of witnesses. It doesn't rule out a possible conspiration to present a fake Aegon, currently not introduced to the readers, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 He doesn't have to pretend to be Aegon... being a bastard is more believable and easier than being someone who is widely known to have died in front of witnesses. Yes, but then he wouldn't be the "mummer's dragon" if he wasn't pretending to be Aegon or some Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon tarkaryen Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 He doesn't have to pretend to be Aegon... being a bastard is more believable and easier than being someone who is widely known to have died in front of witnesses. It doesn't rule out a possible conspiration to present a fake Aegon, currently not introduced to the readers, of course. in front of witnesses that are all dead now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Yes, but then he wouldn't be the "mummer's dragon" if he wasn't pretending to be Aegon or some Targaryen. I said "bastard". Considering how popular some of the hidden Targ childs can get (yes, Jon, I'm looking at you), all you need is some targ physical trait, a conveniently dead "mother" who happened to be near a targaryen at the time of your conception, and a witness of sorts to validate your parentage. Finding a mother isn't hard, after all Jon has 4 of them. Finding a witness is as easy as looking in the mirror if you're the conspirator. Finding a mother is as hard as inventing a unknown whore, now deceased. Having the Targaryien physical traits is the hardest part. in front of witnesses that are all dead now.And who therefore cannot prove that the accepted story is false, whereas people who heard that story firsthand are still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornishman Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 The way I see it, we have two possibilities of seeing this vision: literally, or symbolically. The great debatte about that was very unnecessary, as it could indeed be both. If its to be taken literally, then theres no doubt that we have awight there, what with the bright ees especially. Who that is? I dont think Brienne. If it is a literal vision, surely Briennes "freakish" apperance wouldve been noted. As we havent seen any wights except Coldhands (or maybe you can count Uncat among them), it would be impossible for us to try to determine which already existing wight would have any reason to cross the sea. As for soon-to-be-dead people, or people in danger of life... well, Davous would be a good candidate, from what we hear about him in Feast. The other possibility is a symbolic intepretation. Personally, I think that "smiling sadly" is indeed the exact contrary to joy - however, on the other hand, we have nothing else that can be really taken as symbolism. If it does mean "Greyjoy", though, it can be any Greyjoy - not only Euron or Victarion, but also Damphair, Theon or even Asha. Though, I think it would also have been remarked if the person was female, so maybe Asha not. However, I say Theon. While it is true that any ironborn is symbolcially dead, Theon is literally near-dead. If he ever escapes the Dreadfort, then as a badly mauled and totured man, maybe even really skinned. So, might as well describe him as dead then. Of course, that state of him also makes him a candidate for the literal intepretation. That of course does not exclude Victarion apeparing in her new realm, or Euron trying to get the dragons. Indeed, the "Euron a Warlock agent" theory seems to fit so well that Ill believe in it. However, that doesnt necessariyl mean the man on the ship is either person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 I said "bastard". Oh, but he already is a bastard. The Bastard of Driftmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commando penguin Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 I think its Theon...cos im a fanboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Oh, but he already is a bastard. The Bastard of Driftmark. And Jon is already a bastard, the bastard of Ned, but that doesn't prevent prevent people to see him as the bastard of Rhaegar. But I wasn't especially thinking about Waters, I just said that passing for a bastard is easier than claiming you are a long dead guy ressurected, if you have the correct physical appearance. But anything is still possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon tarkaryen Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 The way I see it, we have two possibilities of seeing this vision: literally, or symbolically. The great debatte about that was very unnecessary, as it could indeed be both. If its to be taken literally, then theres no doubt that we have awight there, what with the bright ees especially. Who that is? I dont think Brienne. If it is a literal vision, surely Briennes "freakish" apperance wouldve been noted. As we havent seen any wights except Coldhands (or maybe you can count Uncat among them), it would be impossible for us to try to determine which already existing wight would have any reason to cross the sea. As for soon-to-be-dead people, or people in danger of life... well, Davous would be a good candidate, from what we hear about him in Feast. The other possibility is a symbolic intepretation. Personally, I think that "smiling sadly" is indeed the exact contrary to joy - however, on the other hand, we have nothing else that can be really taken as symbolism. If it does mean "Greyjoy", though, it can be any Greyjoy - not only Euron or Victarion, but also Damphair, Theon or even Asha. Though, I think it would also have been remarked if the person was female, so maybe Asha not. However, I say Theon. While it is true that any ironborn is symbolcially dead, Theon is literally near-dead. If he ever escapes the Dreadfort, then as a badly mauled and totured man, maybe even really skinned. So, might as well describe him as dead then. Of course, that state of him also makes him a candidate for the literal intepretation. That of course does not exclude Victarion apeparing in her new realm, or Euron trying to get the dragons. Indeed, the "Euron a Warlock agent" theory seems to fit so well that Ill believe in it. However, that doesnt necessariyl mean the man on the ship is either person. but any other prophecy from that triplet is symbolical,therefore,this one also have to be symbolical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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