StannisBamfatheon Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 No, a force ten times their responded to their rebellion. The fact they rebelled in that context demonstrates what poor tacticians they are.Exxxxactly. It did not require an army ten times there size to destroy them, that is simply the size of the force arrayed against them. And that force summarily destroyed them. They have no tactical or strategic wisdom and going up against true commanders like Ned Stark and Stannis Baratheon they would have lost even if they had the numbers advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pentos Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 They got wiped out as they were trying to flee.Theon told them to surrender because their position was hopeless. That's hardly a deception. The fact they listened to his defeatism tells you everything.No, a force ten times their responded to their rebellion. The fact they rebelled in that context demonstrates what poor tacticians they are.Give me a hundred ironborn against a 100 of any other culture or army and I reckon they'd beat the crap out of them. They reave and pillage because there aren't enough of them to conquer and hold ground. Pound for pound though, they are probably the toughest warriors in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Give me a hundred ironborn against a 100 of any other culture or army and I reckon they'd beat the crap out of them. They reave and pillage because there aren't enough of them to conquer and hold ground. Pound for pound though, they are probably the toughest warriors in the books.We're going to find out at the Battle of Meereen, aren't we?Seeing as how they're fighting plague ridden Yunkishmen who think chaining all their slaves together is a good idea, they might actually stand a chance this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkhal Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 We're going to find out at the Battle of Meereen, aren't we?Seeing as how they're fighting plague ridden Yunkishmen who think chaining all their slaves together is a good idea, they might actually stand a chance this time.Arn't you a little hard now? Untill the Targaryens did show up the Ironborn had after all taken over the Riverlands and defeated the Stormlands over it, so I don't think they are as bad as some people make them out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Arn't you a little hard now? Untill the Targaryens did show up the Ironborn had after all taken over the Riverlands and defeated the Stormlands over it, so I don't think they are as bad as some people make them out to be.Harren the Black's grandfather captured the Riverlands, meaning they're rule over the region was not exactly a long one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkhal Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Harren the Black's grandfather captured the Riverlands, meaning they're rule over the region was not exactly a long one.Not arguing the length of their rule, only that they did manage to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Not arguing the length of their rule, only that they did manage to take it.True, but without more context, I'm reluctant to heap praise on them. They may well have waited until the Storm King was busy and swooped in like they've done in the North and the Reach for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Gathers Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Victarion the berserker badassSorry, but what do you think makes Victarion a badass?Killing his own wife with his hands?Burning whores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Sorry, but what do you think makes Victarion a badass?Killing his own wife with his hands?Burning whores?The scene in AFFC where he leads the assault on the Shield Islands and fights Talbert Serry was pretty badass imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Eye Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 During the battle with the Shield Islands Victarion was unstoppable in his attack on the Shield Islands. He stopped a sword with his hand and then threw the person who attacked him off the side of the boat. The main reason for the losses the Ironborn suffer is the tactical incompetence of Balon, who should have just taken Robb's offer. Also, a rebellion in which you are vastly outnumbered (both of the Ironborn rebellions) are anything but cowardly, just a really bad idea. If someone like Euron, who has proven himself to be acapable tactician, had been calling the shots, many of their losses would have been avoided. The Kingsmoot, while not held in a very long time , was held, which is more than any other society (excluding the Night's Watch, which is not really the same) can say. And the the Kingsmoot consists not just of Lords, but also of all the captains, which, while still not everyone, is a far more representative than any other culture in Westeros. Also, it's not that the Ironborn are good people, it is that they are an interesting culture with interesting characters who at their best moments are pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkhal Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 During the battle with the Shield Islands Victarion was unstoppable in his attack on the Shield Islands. He stopped a sword with his hand and then threw the person who attacked him off the side of the boat. The main reason for the losses the Ironborn suffer is the tactical incompetence of Balon, who should have just taken Robb's offer. Also, a rebellion in which you are vastly outnumbered (both of the Ironborn rebellions) are anything but cowardly, just a really bad idea. If someone like Euron, who has proven himself to be acapable tactician, had been calling the shots, many of their losses would have been avoided. The Kingsmoot, while not held in a very long time , was held, which is more than any other society (excluding the Night's Watch, which is not really the same) can say. And the the Kingsmoot consists not just of Lords, but also of all the captains, which, while still not everyone, is a far more representative than any other culture in Westeros. Also, it's not that the Ironborn are good people, it is that they are an interesting culture with interesting characters who at their best moments are pretty cool.Gotto agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'll say that there is not much to respect about the Ironborn. They're that one kid at school that has no friends, isn't that tough, yet thinks he can beat the shit out of anybody. If Westeros was the shape of a person, the Iron Islands would literally be the thorn in it's ass. They're nothing more than a nuisance who attacks when everyone else is weak. Balon Greyjoy was probably the stupidest person in Westeros, or if he's not he's close. Side Note: I like Asha, Dagmer and Rodrik the Reader. Theon I more pity than like, but Balon and his brothers are despicable people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 During the battle with the Shield Islands Victarion was unstoppable in his attack on the Shield Islands. He stopped a sword with his hand and then threw the person who attacked him off the side of the boat. He stopped a sword with his gauntlet, to be precise. Not like, for example, Catelyn, who blocked a Valyrian blade with her own flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 He stopped a sword with his gauntlet, to be precise. Not like, for example, Catelyn, who blocked a Valyrian blade with her own flesh.Catelyn>VictarionIt is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 During the battle with the Shield Islands Victarion was unstoppable in his attack on the Shield Islands.Yeah, tends to be the case when you're fighting a depleted garrison and fisherfolk with overwhelming force.The main reason for the losses the Ironborn suffer is the tactical incompetence of Balon,Yet he's the person the Ironborn support as their leader, what does that say about them?Also, a rebellion in which you are vastly outnumbered (both of the Ironborn rebellions) are anything but cowardly, just a really bad idea.It's cowardly when you bend the knee when the rebellion goes south.The Kingsmoot, while not held in a very long time , was held, which is more than any other society (excluding the Night's Watch, which is not really the same) can say.Excluding the Night's Watch far more frequent, long running and equal democratic practices because....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Eye Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 The Nights Watch is a self-contained, insular organization dedicated to guarding the Wall rather than a distinct political entity ruling over large numbers of people and territory. And while what Catelyn did is pretty damn impressive, she conspicuously failed to toss her attacker into the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan12 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 YES! I am a huge fan of the Ironborn! Reaving and pillaging and paying the Iron Price are some of the most badass themes in the entire books. They aren't cowards, they are unapologetic raiders at the end of the day there is something awesome about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkhal Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 It's cowardly when you bend the knee when the rebellion goes south.It really isn't cowardly to surrender when you are as a matter of fact defeated. That's just adjusting to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan12 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 It really isn't cowardly to surrender when you are as a matter of fact defeated. That's just adjusting to reality.Agreed. When Torrhen Stark bent the knee it wasn't cowardly. He gave up his Crown as well and no one ever turns around and says what a coward he should have defended what was his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattered Prince Pumpkinn Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I like pirates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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