The Iron Islands Appreciation Thread

[The Crow's Eye]

A lot of people seem to hate the Iron Islands, and I don't understand why. There are some great Ironborn characters (Aeron the fanatic, Victarion the berserker badass, Euron the supremely entertaining wizard-pirate, Asha is just pretty cool, and Theon is maybe the most tragic character in ASoIaF), and the entire Viking like culture of the Ironborn is awesome. Even better, the Ironborn have the closest thing to a democracy in Westeros with the Kingsmoot, and the common folk seem more equal with the lords on the Islands than elsewhere in Westeros with the "every captain is king on his ship" tradition. I realize that the Ironborn hold a number of unsavory traditions, but on the whole, the badass outweighs the bad. The Iron Islands deserve a hell of a lot more appreciation than they're getting.

[Julian Rayne]

I realize that the Ironborn hold a number of unsavory traditions, but on the whole, the badass outweighs the bad. The Iron Islands deserve a hell of a lot more appreciation than they're getting.

I'll have to disagree on two points:

1. Ironborn aren't badass, they're cowards who only attack when they think their enemies aren't in a position to fight back. The moment they're disillusioned, they surrender and then despise the children they failed to protect.

2. Badass IMO never outweighs bad. It's like frosting on a turd if you ask me.

[akajea]

They are miserable parasites. No more than a thorn in the side of the greenlanders. Their culture would be eradicated if they posed any real threat.

[The Frostfangs]

"though all men do despise us"

[Mark Antony]

I like Asha sometimes, Vic is entertaining.

[Rickon the Reclaimer]

I quite like them, especially Asha and Dagmer. But damphair is sooooo boring.

Their only downside is that they run away alot.

FYI. i picture asha sort of like bam margera's wife but with a beak nose. not like the TV character http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=missy+margera&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-nz:IE-Address&biw=1366&bih=600&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnso&tbnid=yXrSpDp6Eo8yKM:&imgrefurl=http://coolspotters.com/models/missy-margera/photos_videos/1154980&docid=_bb0lrZ71BlqQM&imgurl=http://www3.images.coolspotters.com/photos/571178/bam-margera-and-missy-margera-gallery.jpg&w=403&h=604&ei=8eMLULblB_CtiQeruY20DQ&zoom=1

[danm_999]

A lot of people seem to hate the Iron Islands, and I don't understand why.

People tend to have a low opinion of a society that prides itself on praying on smallfolk and undefended enemies and then folds faster than Superman on laundry day at the first sign of trouble.

Even better, the Ironborn have the closest thing to a democracy in Westeros with the Kingsmoot,

That'd be the Night's Watch, actually. They actually let everyone involved vote, and they actually vote for each Lord Commander.

Kingsmoots are completely infrequent, and only lords get a vote.

and the common folk seem more equal with the lords on the Islands than elsewhere in Westeros with the "every captain is king on his ship" tradition.

The common folk are not captains. Captains are mostly made up of the social elite.

The common folk of the Iron Islands are the thralls and people forced to work in the mines, who have it far worse than most peasants in Westeros.

I realize that the Ironborn hold a number of unsavory traditions, but on the whole, the badass outweighs the bad. The Iron Islands deserve a hell of a lot more appreciation than they're getting.

The Ironborn have proven themselves to be a society that likes to dish it out, but simply can't take it. If they actually believed this "might makes right", "we're so tough and awesome" drivel, they'd have kicked Balon to the curb the second his horribly foolish rebellion fell apart.

Their military record for a society that prides itself on being tough and militant is absolutely shocking; their victories have all come against largely ungarrisoned and non-martial opponents, and everytime they've come up against someone halfway competant (Stannis, Roose and Ramsay Bolton, King Robert and Ned) they've shamed themselves immeasurably.

[Elder Sister]

The reason Iron Islands society gets no respect is because they don't deserve it, and their value system and morality is repugnant to most people.

They don't build, create, or offer anything; instead they take what others have worked for and use it up, then move on. They are basically a swarm of locusts and are reviled and hated by the rest of Westeros, for good reason, IMO.

I do quite like Asha, and I feel sorry for Reek, but those are the most positive feelings I can muster for the Ironborn.

[mcb]

A lot of people seem to hate the Iron Islands, and I don't understand why. There are some great Ironborn characters (Aeron the fanatic, Victarion the berserker badass, Euron the supremely entertaining wizard-pirate, Asha is just pretty cool, and Theon is maybe the most tragic character in ASoIaF), and the entire Viking like culture of the Ironborn is awesome. Even better, the Ironborn have the closest thing to a democracy in Westeros with the Kingsmoot,

No they don't. The kingsmoot they held in ASOS was the first one in four millennia. The Night's Watch, however, elect their lords commander every time there's a vacancy.

Vicky's not "a berserker badass", he's a stinking craven. Vicky chooses his foes more carefully: his wife, maester Kerwin, the fisherman who outed his most cherished secret, boy whores - he definitely prefers to engage someone smaller, weaker and unarmed. However, from his hated brother Euron he meekly takes all shit that Crow's Eye chooses to serve. Could you imagine Sandor Clegane taking shit from Gregor? I certainly can't.

Aeron is a fanatic, on that I agree. He's also boring and annoying with all that Drowned God bullshit.

Theon became an interesting character only after he endured Ramsay Bolton therapy. Before, his self-entitled whining in ACOK was not fun to read by any measure.

Asha is a little less annoying that the rest of her family, but still her every second sentence is about how awesome Asha is. Strong Belwas does the same better and cuter.

[Frey Pentos]

I'll have to disagree on two points:

1. Ironborn aren't badass, they're cowards who only attack when they think their enemies aren't in a position to fight back. The moment they're disillusioned, they surrender and then despise the children they failed to protect.

The battle of Deepwood Motte, holding Moat Cailin, their rebellion against Robert Baratheon etc. You might not like them but they are hard as nails warriors and far from cowards.

[danm_999]

The battle of Deepwood Motte,

What were Asha's forces doing during the Battle of Deepwood Motte?

Running back to their ships like cravens. That's why they were in the woods, and not, you know, Deepwood Motte.

holding Moat Cailin,

They didn't hold it. Most of the garrison left, and the rest surrendered to Ramsay Snow without a fight.

their rebellion against Robert Baratheon etc. You might not like them but they are hard as nails warriors and far from cowards.

Oh, the one where they surrendered when Pyke was attacked? Yes, very brave.

[Dacie]

The battle of Deepwood Motte, holding Moat Cailin, their rebellion against Robert Baratheon etc. You might not like them but they are hard as nails warriors and far from cowards.

Deepwood Motte was only lightly held. Galbart and Robett had marched south with Robb and had left it in the hands of Robett's wife and their steward. When Stannis showed up they ran back to their ships with their tails between their legs.

[IKE]

Appreciate them for what they represent, realistic depiction of feudal war-onomics. Pillaging and raping is the stipends paid to soldiers, whether it's iron born or northmen, Lannister mercs or wildings. Iron born just don't hide this fact behind pretty banners, shiny armor, and the false concept that war makes good.

[Howling Mad]

All I can say is :ack:

[Frey Pentos]

What were Asha's forces doing during the Battle of Deepwood Motte?

Running back to their ships like cravens. That's why they were in the woods, and not, you know, Deepwood Motte.

They didn't hold it. Most of the garrison left, and the rest surrendered to Ramsay Snow without a fight.

Oh, the one where they surrendered when Pyke was attacked? Yes, very brave.

They were massively outnumbered by the clans but still kicked a lot of arse. Held Moat Cailin until being deceived by one of their own in Theon. Took a force 10 times their number to quell their rebellion. They're obviously not cowards even if discretion is sometimes the better part of valour.

[Kittykatknits]

People tend to have a low opinion of a society that prides itself on praying on smallfolk and undefended enemies and then folds faster than Superman on laundry day at the first sign of trouble.

That'd be the Night's Watch, actually. They actually let everyone involved vote, and they actually vote for each Lord Commander.

Kingsmoots are completely infrequent, and only lords get a vote.

The common folk are not captains. Captains are mostly made up of the social elite.

The common folk of the Iron Islands are the thralls and people forced to work in the mines, who have it far worse than most peasants in Westeros.

The Ironborn have proven themselves to be a society that likes to dish it out, but simply can't take it. If they actually believed this "might makes right", "we're so tough and awesome" drivel, they'd have kicked Balon to the curb the second his horribly foolish rebellion fell apart.

Their military record for a society that prides itself on being tough and militant is absolutely shocking; their victories have all come against largely ungarrisoned and non-martial opponents, and everytime they've come up against someone halfway competant (Stannis, Roose and Ramsay Bolton, King Robert and Ned) they've shamed themselves immeasurably.

Yeah, pretty much this. Sums it up in my opinion.

[mcb]

Their military record for a society that prides itself on being tough and militant is absolutely shocking; their victories have all come against largely ungarrisoned and non-martial opponents, and everytime they've come up against someone halfway competant (Stannis, Roose and Ramsay Bolton, King Robert and Ned) they've shamed themselves immeasurably.

Actually it's been sad and pathetic for ages. "In ancient days, the ironborn had boldly sailed the river road and plundered all along the Mander and its vassal streams... until the kings of the green hand had armed the fisherfolk on the four small islands off the Mander's mouth". Poor proud warriors. All's right and good, until some utter bastard gives fishermen an axe or two.

[StannisBamfatheon]

People tend to have a low opinion of a society that prides itself on praying on smallfolk and undefended enemies and then folds faster than Superman on laundry day at the first sign of trouble.

That'd be the Night's Watch, actually. They actually let everyone involved vote, and they actually vote for each Lord Commander.

Kingsmoots are completely infrequent, and only lords get a vote.

The common folk are not captains. Captains are mostly made up of the social elite.

The common folk of the Iron Islands are the thralls and people forced to work in the mines, who have it far worse than most peasants in Westeros.

The Ironborn have proven themselves to be a society that likes to dish it out, but simply can't take it. If they actually believed this "might makes right", "we're so tough and awesome" drivel, they'd have kicked Balon to the curb the second his horribly foolish rebellion fell apart.

Their military record for a society that prides itself on being tough and militant is absolutely shocking; their victories have all come against largely ungarrisoned and non-martial opponents, and everytime they've come up against someone halfway competant (Stannis, Roose and Ramsay Bolton, King Robert and Ned) they've shamed themselves immeasurably.

Danm killing it as usual. This.

Seriously the Ironborn lose every battle, you think Balon's Rebellion was some great act? The only battle they won wasn't even a battle proper, it was the midnight burning of the Lannisport fleet. Then Stannis comes in and crushes Victarion at Fair Isle and Robert lands troops on the Iron Islands themselves and quickly subjugates them.

Also the Iron Islanders might be the dumbest people on Westeros, how indicative of a culture's shortcomings is it when a man who reads frequently is shunned, looked down upon and mistrusted? Archipelago of idiots man. Yeah let's start a rebellion where were outnumbered 10 to 1. So moronic. Balon's delusional grasp of the "old way" is laughable.

The Iron Islands have never done anything to help Westeros at large and for all their crimes should be destroyed root and stem.

[danm_999]

They were massively outnumbered by the clans but still kicked a lot of arse.

They got wiped out as they were trying to flee.

Held Moat Cailin until being deceived by one of their own in Theon.

Theon told them to surrender because their position was hopeless. That's hardly a deception. The fact they listened to his defeatism tells you everything.

Took a force 10 times their number to quell their rebellion. They're obviously not cowards even if discretion is sometimes the better part of valour.

No, a force ten times their number responded to their rebellion. The fact they rebelled in that context demonstrates what poor tacticians they are.

[danm_999]

Actually it's been sad and pathetic for ages. "In ancient days, the ironborn had boldly sailed the river road and plundered all along the Mander and its vassal streams... until the kings of the green hand had armed the fisherfolk on the four small islands off the Mander's mouth". Poor proud warriors. All's right and good, until some utter bastard gives fishermen an axe or two.

Reaving the Stony Shore and killing unprepared peasants and smallfolk = fair, mighty and honourable.

Crannongmen using poisoned arrows = OMG NO FAIR YOU GUYZ, THAT'S TOTES DISHONOURABLE!