*SPOILERS* On ravens - from the latest excerpt on GRRM's site

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Bloodraven was specifically speaking about visions from the past. This makes sense from the perspective of timeline purity (lest a greenseer simply repeats past events until he creates the desired timeline - that would be way too OP). However, this is not the same as saying a greenseer cannot communicate in the present.

Yes, but who is to say what can be gleaned by greenseers from blood sacrifices. Yes, it is sheer speculation, but then again so is a lot of what we discuss on these forums.

Danke

Yes, we don't know what it is for. But if we assume that like sacrifices to R'hlor, they get the "favors" of the gods, as when they burned the godswood, or when they kileed someone for better winds. Some kind of dark favor, i guess.

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What if Asha has just outsmarted Stannis? She uses the argument to sacrifice Theon as a way to split Stannis from his southern lord of light followers. The northern clans are not tight with the dude, and then he would be split from his closer connections. With Theon outlive Stannis? We have all been talking about Stannis going after Winterfell, speculating on how he will do it. He sounds bad ass in the gift chapter, but maybe he is just about to fall. Why do the northern lords need him, in theirnown minds, if Arya either fake or real in their minds is now free. They actually seem to think southerners are wimps, so why follow Stannis?

For vengeance. But i think Asha is being frank. He killed boys and all, his life is forfeit since he was taken by Ramsay. Even Theon himself only hopes for a nice clean kiss of death.

Did you guys tought of the possibility that the corpse whose blood Bran could feel in his mouth trough the tree is actually Theon's? Because it's definetly someone he knows. He wouldn't say "No, no" if it was some stranger being killed.

There's much we southrons don't know about the northern gods.

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But dude the whole story till now shows that even after Brans great skinchanging ability distance does often makes it difficult for him to skinchange into Summer...The same was observed in Jon's case when Ghost was missing from him in the FoTC..(However Arya is in Bravoos and every night she dreams of Nymeria's activity.....so distance is not an issue for her). Also wont he already be warging in a WW Tree? But still the Raven calls out Theon's name and calls out of Tree! so maybe u r right....maybe something will be revealed....

Bran can change into Summer as he pleases.He can go to winterfell, why wouldn't he be able to go to summer?

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The thing is that we can't be sure of this, at this stage.

In the first chapter of AGOT, when Jon is riding up with the Stark siblings, Jon hears something that only he can hear, which makes him turn back and find Ghost. It is explicitely stated here that Bran hears 'the wind in the trees' but that Jon is listening to something else.

I would not use the term 'speaking' with (ETA or through) a tree, because we are told that the trees and whoever controls them have no voice.

So what is it?

It might be 'communicating', invoking thoughts. No warging/skinchanging/mindraping (ugh). No, some way of getting in touch with whatever the one who seeks refuge or wisdom is looking for, in their own consience or moral foundation.

I guess the thing that in my opinion comes nearest is 'praying', which of course can be seen as communication which oneself as well as - in a religious sense - as communication with a god..

I don't believe Bran speaks through the trees and influences people.

I think he may enable them to find peace, to find themselves, which is not influencing but facilitating.

Bran is not the one who gives help or guidance, he enables the one who seeks help or guidance to help or guide himself.

He heard Ghost wimpering somewhere... But wait! Ghost never makes a sound!!! Right. That's true. But we know that they were destined to find those pups. The wolfs and the people who own them can feel the same thing sometimes. As when they attack who made their owners angry without any word. Peharps he just "felt" Ghost, or something like that. And even if not, we know that ghost is different. Ghost has red eyes. Eyes of the weirdwood, yes, and BR said that among the CotF, the ones with gifts of greendreaming and this stuff have their eyes red, to mark their gift. But Jon can't do that. He can't unleash his gift of warg either, but i don't know... I think sometimes among the wolfs, Ghost has something 'more', and among the people Bran is the most powerful, but if they could learn their connection with their wolves, they would ge much stronger.As Arya seems to be doing......In one of her chapter on the fourth book, while she's blind, she wargs a cat!! you noticed it right? They won't get to be Greenseers, but Rickon and Arya best get along their beasty selfes

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If Bran wargs theon, that will completely warp the mind of theon forever, he will totally lose it because he has been on the tipping point for some time now.

No. If they warg in something and this something dies, they go back to their own bodies. BUT, if your body dies while you're in this person's body, then you will stay like that forever.

I know you got it from Varamyr's chapter, but i think you misunderstood...

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BR's specific objection against weirnet contacting is that you cannot change the past. The objection says nothing about weirnetting someone in the present. And BR isn't allknowing. Perhaps they can send messages to the past. They just can't change it (a common solution to the time traveler's paradox). Worst case, your message turns out to cause the very thing you tried to prevent.

But who can say Bran was on the wirwood at the time? It is a possibility, but i don't think was bran's voice.

[bully]

I have to disagree on some simple grounds. You are taking as fact that Bran cannot simply talk through the trees, we don't know this, we are just told this by bloodraven. I have not read the dunk and egg stories so I don't know everything about bloodraven, but I would be willing to bet that Bran has more power in raw terms. My opposing theory is that Bran simply talks through the tree and the reason for the trees having full faces finally becomes apparent. I believe that if Bran is going to warg someone besides Hodor it will be Patchface, it seems that so far we have been given a great deal of info on Patchface for no reason.

Patchface has something dark around him. But i think he's like a envoy from the Drowned God. He only became a fool after he was returned from the sea. He's like a thrall of this god, i guess. And we know that the Drowned God has some connection with The One That Can't Be Named...This, according to Melisandre, but she thinks that the Old Gods are with this God of Darkness too. She believes they are puppetts of this other dark god.

But who is to say that this Dark God enemy of R'holor isn't the Old Gods, the ones who have secret names? Speakimg of wich, they both have secret names...Isn't that queer?

[VaramyrSixchins]

Any information Theon can impart can be supplied to Stannis by others, or is irrelevent to Stannis's cause.

Bran/Rikkon lives=Liddles.

Bolton's role in the RW and the fact that Ramsay's the actual sacker of WF=only relevent to the northmen on Bolton's side. All indications are that Manderly already knows these secrets and the northmen will turn on Bolton soon, anyway.

Fake Arya=Again, only relevent to northmen on Bolton's side, and only relevent to WF's line of succession should Stannis prevail. Even this is rendered moot by male heirs being alive and openly acknowledged.

The point is, the knowledge that Theon has would be better served being conveyed to the northmen FIGHTING Stannis, not the ones with him. Perhaps it will all shake out that Manderly, Stannis, Liddles, et al have a big debriefing session, and Theon, Bran/BR do something Old-Godish to confirm and get everyone on the same page.

But if not, the question, then, is what does Bran know that he feels he must convey to Stannis?

[Dumptruck]

Patchface has something dark around him. But i think he's like a envoy from the Drowned God. He only became a fool after he was returned from the sea. He's like a thrall of this god, i guess. And we know that the Drowned God has some connection with The One That Can't Be Named...This, according to Melisandre, but she thinks that the Old Gods are with this God of Darkness too. She believes they are puppetts of this other dark god.

But who is to say that this Dark God enemy of R'holor isn't the Old Gods, the ones who have secret names? Speakimg of wich, they both have secret names...Isn't that queer?

Patch face was a fool when the found him across the narrow sea, hence the name Patchface, motley tattoo as the slaves have