*SPOILERS* On ravens - from the latest excerpt on GRRM's site

[Baratheon Crossing]

Was reading the excerpt recently and I have to ask and see if anyone knows (or have already developed some crackpot theories)

What in seven hells is up with the ravens??? Why are they going bat shit crazy over Theon? Quotes:

The memory left Theon writhing in his chains. "Let me down," he pleaded. "Just for a little while, then you can hang me up again." Stannis Baratheon looked up at him, but did not answer. "Tree," a raven cried. "Tree, tree, tree."

Then other bird said, "Theon," clear as day, as Asha came striding through the door.

And suddenly there came a wild thumping, as the maester's ravens hopped and flapped inside their cages, their black feathers flying as they beat against the bars with loud and raucous caws. "The tree," one squawked, "the tree, the tree," whilst the second screamed only, "Theon, Theon, Theon."

Theon Greyjoy smiled. They know my name, he thought.

Personally, I feel Bran is obviously trying to send the mans a message. It's not the first time he's tried communicating with Theon and if I'm not mistaken Bloodraven has some limited speech capabilities warging into the ravens (don't have quotes on hand but I'll try to provide if necessary).

Anyway if this is the case, why is Bran contacting him via warg powers? What kind of part does Theon have left to play. And more importantly: Why is Theon getting mixed up into more god aweful shit!! The man has been through enough (albeit he kinda deserved it) but he's just growing his balls back (hehe) and it seems to me he's going to be in the heart of the inevitable shitstorm that's going to rage from the beginning of tWOW.

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? I'd like to hear it

[yolkboy]

Theon is needed to cancel the previous kingsmoot, and therefore scupper Eurons plans (which are no doubt evil). You can cancel a kingsmoot if one of the suitors wasnt told about the moot. Theon was too busy being 'Reek'. If Theon got to the Iron Isles, Damphair could call a new Kngsmoot and Eurons contract as Iron King be cancelled.

Don't know if this relates into what you're saying, but a very important point.

[kissdbyfire]

I think it's BR/Bran. I think they want Stannis to bring Theon in front of a weirwood but not to have him killed as a sacrifice.

I have a theory that's just that, a theory. I think Bran might skinchange into Theon when he’s brought before the weirwood. Bran knows the secret ways of Winterfell better than anyone.

AGoT, chapter 8, Bran II:

“When he got out from under it and scrambled up near the sky, Bran could see all of Winterfell in a glance. He liked the way it looked, spread out beneath him, only birds wheeling over his head while all the life of the castle went on below. Bran could perch for hours among the shapeless, rain-worn gargoyles that brooded over the First Keep, watching it all: the men drilling with wood and steel in the yard, the cooks tending their vegetables in the glass garden, restless dogs running back and forth in the kennels, the silence of the godswood, the girls gossiping beside the washing well. It made him feel like he was lord of the castle, in a way even Robb would never know.

It taught him Winterfell’s secrets too. The builders had not even leveled the earth; there were hills and valleys behind the walls of Winterfell. There was a covered bridge that went from the fourth floor of the bell tower across to the second floor of the rookery. Bran knew about that. And he knew you could get inside the inner wall by the south gate, climb three floors and run all the way around Winterfell through a narrow tunnel in the stone, and then come out on ground level at the north gate, with a hundred feet of wall looming over you. Even Maester Luwin didn’t know that, Bran was convinced.”

We know that dogs are the easiest animals to skinchange into.

ADwD, Prologue

Dogs were the easiest beasts to bond with; they lived so close to men that they were almost human. Slipping into a dog’s skin was like putting on an old boot, its leather softened by wear. As a boot was shaped to accept a foot, a dog was shaped to accept a collar, even a collar no human eye could see. Wolves were harder.

And Theon is presented to us, time and again, as a dog. This point is driven home throughout Dance.

ADwD, Reek II

Lord Ramsay laughed. “You’re not a man, Reek. You’re just my creature. You’ll have your wine, though. Walder, see to it. And fear not, I won’t return you to the dungeons, you have my word as a Bolton. We’ll make a dog of you instead. Meat every day, and I’ll even leave you teeth enough to eat it. You can sleep beside my girls. Ben, do you have a collar for him?”

ADwD, Reek II

Farther back came the baggage train—lumbering wayns laden with provisions and loot taken in the war, and carts crowded with wounded men and cripples. And at the rear, more Freys. At least a thousand, maybe more: bowmen, spearmen, peasants armed with scythes and sharpened sticks, freeriders and mounted archers, and another hundred knights to stiffen them.

Collared and chained and back in rags again, Reek followed with the other dogs at Lord Ramsay’s heels when his lordship strode forth to greet his father.

The way I see it, there is an awful lot of emphasis on Theon becoming a dog; we know Bran can skinchange into Hodor and use the weirnet; we know Theon is broken and guilt-ridden, possibly willing to do anything he can to atone to his betrayal; and he’s very likely going to be brought before a weirwood.

[kissdbyfire]

The first part of my reasoning (Bran knowing the secret passageways in Winterfell) isn't directly connected to this. But it's one of the things Bran/BR might try to achieve through Theon: to let Stannis know how to get inside Wintefell, besides letting him know that he's alive and what he's up to (more or less).

[Jolene Brown]

Ugh, no warging people. The Hodor thing is bad enough. Also, Theon is just reclaiming his identity, I don't want to see Bran interfere with that, and I don't think he will. Communicate with him maybe - take over his body, no.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I believe that there are threads on this in WoW forum. I know that on different threads it has been talked about.

As for me I think that Bran is trying to get them to the trees where he has more power, so he tell Stannis something, maybe to get to Jon, maybe to not attack manderly's, or maybe something totally unexpected.

[Catacombs]

How does one warg over such a great distance? Do you jump from a Weirwood to the target? From the Prologue in ADWD it seemed that distance could limit warging.

And if Bran could warg from hundreds and hundreds of miles away, why didn't Bloodraven do that to talk to Bran from the get go.

I think Bran can move through the trees and perhaps through Ravens as well (which linked in some way to the weirwoods). The CotF taught Ravens to speak their messages. That seems different to me than warging, but still related.

Through one's dreams seem to be the way that BR communicated to Bran. I suspect that Bran will 'talk' to people in a similar way and the power of those communications/visions will strongest at the weirwood.

Something interesting will happen when Stannis and his party bring Theon to the tree for execution. I still don't think Theon will survive, but I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

[The Last Giant]

Kissdbyfire that theory sounds great, I think Coldhands might have been some kind of special sacrifice for bloodraven, and maybe theon could be brans 'coldhands'.

[kissdbyfire]

Ugh, no warging people. The Hodor thing is bad enough. Also, Theon is just reclaiming his identity, I don't want to see Bran interfere with that, and I don't think he will. Communicate with him maybe - take over his body, no.

I disagree. The whole 'no skinchanging into people' is just a rule. We have been shown time and again that there are times when a certain rule should be broken. Also, in all likelihood the rule refers to skinchanging into someone against their will. That would be a violation. But we have never heard of a situation where the skinchangee is willing.

As to the issue of Theon's identity, that is kind of the point, really. It's precisely because Theon is reconnecting with who he is and what he's done that I think he might do it of his own free will.

appaling appalling spelling

[kissdbyfire]

I believe that there are threads on this in WoW forum. I know that on different threads it has been talked about.

As for me I think that Bran is trying to get them to the trees where he has more power, so he tell Stannis something, maybe to get to Jon, maybe to not attack manderly's, or maybe something totally unexpected.

Exactly. But we know Bran can't talk to Stannis through the weirwood to convey whatever message he has for him. Sure, Theon 'heard' his name being whispered in the rustling of the weirwood leaves, as Eddard apparently did too. But it's not 'really' talking. It would be extremely difficult to convey any sort of message through the rustling of leaves, IMO. That's why Bran needs a vessel, and Theon might just be it.

[kissdbyfire]

How does one warg over such a great distance? Do you jump from a Weirwood to the target? From the Prologue in ADWD it seemed that distance could limit warging.

And if Bran could warg from hundreds and hundreds of miles away, why didn't Bloodraven do that to talk to Bran from the get go.

I think Bran can move through the trees and perhaps through Ravens as well (which linked in some way to the weirwoods). The CotF taught Ravens to speak their messages. That seems different to me than warging, but still related.

Through one's dreams seem to be the way that BR communicated to Bran. I suspect that Bran will 'talk' to people in a similar way and the power of those communications/visions will strongest at the weirwood.

Something interesting will happen when Stannis and his party bring Theon to the tree for execution. I still don't think Theon will survive, but I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

Cover long distance - thought the weirnet

BR didn't have a willing person to get into to talk to Bran

[Jolene Brown]

I just don't like it. Theon's entire arc in ADWD was about NOT being the dog Ramsay tried to turn him into. I don't think he would let Bran take over his body, and I don't want him to either.

[Tenshi]

Nice theory. Might add that Bran is one of the few northerners who do NOT blame Theon for the death of two Stark boys (which is Stannis' primary motivation for wanting to kill Theon). Also, considering that Bran's been catching up with history, he may well know all that the Boltons have done.

Another thing possibly of note: just before the sack of Winterfell, maester Luwin convinced Theon to take the black. Theon seemed to agree. Jon just got his ticket out of the NW, is likely Robb's heir, and Stannis wanted him to take Winterfell. So crackpot: the whole plan is to get Jon as Lord of the North, perhaps Theon into the black (pretty much placing the wall under BR/Bran influence) - possibly the ideal alliance of Watch and North.

[Jolene Brown]

Jon Snow and Theon Greyjoy is probably the most UNideal alliance I can imagine. Jon didn't like or trust Theon even BEFORE everything that happened in A Clash of Kings. Theon may live, but Jon will never trust him with anything.

[Elder Sister]

Cover long distance - thought the weirnet

BR didn't have a willing person to get into to talk to Bran

The 'weirnet' is pretty funny...

I do like your theory. When I read that passage with the ravens and Theon, it did occur to me that it was Bran. Also, when he's in the Godswood with Mance Rayder's women, it happens again...Theon has been hearing voices, and doesn't Bran see him at one point when he's in the caves with BR?

[kissdbyfire]

I just don't like it. Theon's entire arc in ADWD was about NOT being the dog Ramsay tried to turn him into. I don't think he would let Bran take over his body, and I don't want him to either.

Well, as I said, it's only a pet theory of mine. And you don't have to like it. It will make sense to some but certainly not to all.

[kissdbyfire]

The 'weirnet' is pretty funny...

I do like your theory. When I read that passage with the ravens and Theon, it did occur to me that it was Bran. Also, when he's in the Godswood with Mance Rayder's women, it happens again...Theon has been hearing voices, and doesn't Bran see him at one point when he's in the caves with BR?

Yes, he does. And does say 'Theon', iirc. And Theon thinks he heard his name. But it's the rustling leaves. That's why I think it would be extremely difficult for Bran to convey a message this way. In other words, I think he needs to be able to really speak to Stannis.

[kissdbyfire]

Two examples of what I'm talking about, both from Dance. The first is a lesson BR gives Bran when Bran sees Eddard through the weirnet.

“But,” said Bran, “he heard me.”

“He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves. You cannot speak to him, try as you might. I know. I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them. The past remains the past. We can learn from it, but we cannot change it.”

Then Theon in the godswood:

Theon found himself wondering if he should say a prayer.Will the old gods hear me if I do? They were not his gods, had never been his gods. He was ironborn, a son of Pyke, his god was the Drowned God of the islands … but Winterfell was long leagues from the sea. It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive, why he had ever been born.

“Theon,” a voice seemed to whisper.

His head snapped up. “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghost’s. How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died, to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek

[Black Wolf Smith]

Yes, he does. And does say 'Theon', iirc. And Theon thinks he heard his name. But it's the rustling leaves. That's why I think it would be extremely difficult for Bran to convey a message this way. In other words, I think he needs to be able to really speak to Stannis.

We seem to thinking along the same lines. I thought since Theon took WF that there where caves/tunnel that lead into the "stash" thats underground well away from it. Why would you have a "stash"(whatever its called) if you could not get to it when you needed it?

[kissdbyfire]

We seem to thinking along the same lines. I thought since Theon took WF that there where caves/tunnel that lead into the "stash" thats underground well away from it. Why would you have a "stash"(whatever its called) if you could not get to it when you needed it?

But a stash of what? I was thinking more along the lines of Stannis learning of a way in from Bran. To catch Bolton & co unaware.