Manning the Royal Navy: WK's Guide to Shipping in ASoIaF-Take 2

[Kittykatknits]

These hypothetical must involve Rickon being dead because he is the de facto heir if we presume that Bran doesn't go south. A good portion of the Northmen may be aware of his existence.

Anyways, this fandom ships Sansa with everyone. Most of the shipping involves her and no one else. It's weird especially since she's not an adult female character.

She's pretty so people assume that's enough to be their favorite character's type. Or she's a reward for them. I think most people just see her as just a potential wife for someone.

Or they ship her with objects or a claim. She has no claim to the Iron Throne so I don't get that ship. Women don't rule in their own right anyway.

I don't get why some assume that marrying Aegon will give her power especially with his sexist Cersei comment. There's no guarantee that he will be one of the few who will be willing to give his wife power so all that supposed learning the game can be for naught with him. The king and his hand typically do the ruling.

Only Dany has a chance but I think she will ultimately be unsuccessful.

Other weird pairings this fandom has to a lesser degree are Theon/Ramsay, Theon/Jeyne, and Aeron/Euron.

I like Jon/Dany but there are no pairings in this fandom where I could say that I love to the degree of my ships in other fandoms.

We were discussing hypothetical situations, trying to understand the power dynamics in a marriage. So for the purposes of the discussion, Rickon didn't really matter.

My take on all the Sansa pairing is that she is young, unwed, and seems to match the princess who needs to be married off archetype. So, she gets paired with everyone. I also think there is a fair amount of the fan base that seems to believe her story will ultimately be about a politically arranged marriage, which I strongly disagree with. I don't get the Aegon or Willas ones to be honest. I ship SanSan only because I can see Sansa's feelings about him and support that. I also have Martin's words to back me up too.

I'm fine with Jon/Dany happening, if it does.

[ARYa_Nym]

My take on all the Sansa pairing is that she is young, unwed, and seems to match the princess who needs to be married off archetype. So, she gets paired with everyone. I also think there is a fair amount of the fan base that seems to believe her story will ultimately be about a politically arranged marriage, which I strongly disagree with. I don't get the Aegon or Willas ones to be honest. I ship SanSan only because I can see Sansa's feelings about him and support that. I also have Martin's words to back me up too.

The only one I could see not being shipped with anyone is Margaery because her husbands keep dying.

I think Arianne fits that more but she rarely if ever gets shipped with anyone. She is actually of age so it's not weird but it would still be annoying. Asha doesn't get shipped with people.

Sansa even gets shipped with dead characters. Myrcella is probably going to die but she rarely gets shipped with anyone. I've only recently seen her shipped with Robb but that's miniscule compared to all the Sansa ships.

Dany may get shipped with some people, (Jorah, Jon) but when it comes to fics they are almost all of Sansa.

[Nausicaä]

That's pretty much what I expected. I can see where you are going with Jaime and Tyrion. I know there are shippers of both and frankly I'll be beyond shocked if either of those scenarios actually turn out to happen. I don't see either commanding much respect amongst the Stark bannermen and would also be viewed with a measure of distrust. To much history here, but I'd say the same when it comes to the idea of Sansa as Lady of CR.

IA. Especially when it comes to Jaime and the idea of Sansa being the Lady of Casterly Rock. I just can't see Jaime and Sansa together. I loved the chemistry between him and Catelyn and I think they would have made a pretty fine match, if Jaime was betrothed to her and not Lysa, but him and her daughter.. That squicks me out just as much as Sansa/Littlefinger, if not more.

I think it would be awesome if Sansa seized CR using her marriage to Tyrion and status as "Lady Lannister" to do so, but honestly, I don't think she could hold it or would want to (or would willingly remain Tyrion's wife if she had a choice). It's pretty clear how she feels about being a part of that family, so I'm hoping that if Sansa gets to CR it's to let the armies of the North, Vale and the Riverlands strip the castle bare and leave it in ruins.

[StannisBamfatheon]

That's pretty much what I expected. I can see where you are going with Jaime and Tyrion. I know there are shippers of both and frankly I'll be beyond shocked if either of those scenarios actually turn out to happen. I don't see either commanding much respect amongst the Stark bannermen and would also be viewed with a measure of distrust. To much history here, but I'd say the same when it comes to the idea of Sansa as Lady of CR.

With the Sandor example (yum), I don't see him wanting to take on the duties of ruler or commander on a larger scale. I see his value coming more from his skills as a warrior although we do know that he's led men in battle. In the Sansa threads, we had talked about the social position of each partner in a marriage and one way for the woman to to obtain either superior or equal power is to marry a man of a lower social status. I think the three men with Sansa in the North would match this scenario.

K3....you're my dog(kat?) but I have to say...have you romanticized Sandor a little bit? I mean people with severe third degree burns on half their face aren't exactly considered attractive from a purely aesthetical standpoint. Is this like an inner beauty thing or what? I also don't remember any character describing the hound as comely or anything.

[Lady Lea]

K3....you're my dog(kat?) but I have to say...have you romanticized Sandor a little bit? I mean people with severe third degree burns on half their face aren't exactly considered attractive from a purely aesthetical standpoint. Is this like an inner beauty thing or what? I also don't remember any character describing the hound as comely or anything.

you have no imagination, dear. I could explain it but it wouldn't be proper.

[Independent George]

*sigh*

Did anybody else click on this thread expecting a discussion on the design, capabilities, and maintenance of actual ships?

[Kittykatknits]

The only one I could see not being shipped with anyone is Margaery because her husbands keep dying.

I think Arianne fits that more but she rarely if ever gets shipped with anyone. She is actually of age so it's not weird but it would still be annoying. Asha doesn't get shipped with people.

Sansa even gets shipped with dead characters. Myrcella is probably going to die but she rarely gets shipped with anyone. I've only recently seen her shipped with Robb but that's miniscule compared to all the Sansa ships.

Dany may get shipped with some people, (Jorah, Jon) but when it comes to fics they are almost all of Sansa.

Margaery doesn't surprise me with all her dead husbands. Who has Sansa been shipped with that is dead? Viserys or Renly? And why?

I think it would be awesome if Sansa seized CR using her marriage to Tyrion and status as "Lady Lannister" to do so, but honestly, I don't think she could hold it or would want to (or would willingly remain Tyrion's wife if she had a choice). It's pretty clear how she feels about being a part of that family, so I'm hoping that if Sansa gets to CR it's to let the armies of the North, Vale and the Riverlands strip the castle bare and leave it in ruins.

She doesn't want to be married to him and I completely understand why. The only scenario I could see her wanting to continue the marriage is one where they are estranged, living separate lives so that she can pursue her choice of romantic partner without the complications of marriage. Still don't think that is likely to happen.

And the bolded part, I think that is my single most favorite sentence that I've read today.

K3....you're my dog(kat?) but I have to say...have you romanticized Sandor a little bit? I mean people with severe third degree burns on half their face aren't exactly considered attractive from a purely aesthetical standpoint. Is this like an inner beauty thing or what? I also don't remember any character describing the hound as comely or anything.

Romanticized him? No, I don't think so. He's a brute and can be a real asshole. He's a functional alcoholic with anger management issues and was in a suicidal depression the last time we meant him. However, I know there is also more to him than that and I'm very curious to see what he is like after the QI. Sansa prayed for his rage to be gentled and for his ferocity to remain. If you analyze what Brienne saw on the QI, I'm very certain that her prayer will be answered.

Also, he's over over six and a half feet tall and is described as being muscled like a bull. I completely respect that.

[Lady Lea]

Romanticized him? No, I don't think so. He's a brute and can be a real asshole. He's a functional alcoholic with anger management issues and was in a suicidal depression the last time we meant him. However, I know there is also more to him than that and I'm very curious to see what he is like after the QI. Sansa prayed for his rage to be gentled and for his ferocity to remain. If you analyze what Brienne saw on the QI, I'm very certain that her prayer will be answered.

Also, he's over over six and a half feet tall and is described as being muscled like a bull. I completely respect that.

I don't think he's an alcoholic tbh. I think Robert was. Sandor was never drunk on the job, except when there was wildfire all over the city. He only drank on his time off, but unfortunately it was when he saw most of him.

[StannisBamfatheon]

Margaery doesn't surprise me with all her dead husbands. Who has Sansa been shipped with that is dead? Viserys or Renly? And why?

She doesn't want to be married to him and I completely understand why. The only scenario I could see her wanting to continue the marriage is one where they are estranged, living separate lives so that she can pursue her choice of romantic partner without the complications of marriage. Still don't think that is likely to happen.

And the bolded part, I think that is my single most favorite sentence that I've read today.

Romanticized him? No, I don't think so. He's a brute and can be a real asshole. He's a functional alcoholic with anger management issues and was in a suicidal depression the last time we meant him. However, I know there is also more to him than that and I'm very curious to see what he is like after the QI. Sansa prayed for his rage to be gentled and for his ferocity to remain. If you analyze what Brienne saw on the QI, I'm very certain that her prayer will be answered.

Also, he's over over six and a half feet tall and is described as being muscled like a bull. I completely respect that.

mmmmmk thanks for clearing that up, do you rememer the "why all the love for the hound" thread? That was a pretty good meditation on the Hound. I put in my two cents there that I too respect his skills as a warrior and find him an intriguing/interesting character. I kinda hope he found peace, I mean his life was irrevocably altered at like age 8, wrong place and the wrong with a brother whose basically evil incarnate.

[ARYa_Nym]

Margaery doesn't surprise me with all her dead husbands. Who has Sansa been shipped with that is dead? Viserys or Renly? And why?

It's mainly incestuous stuff. Anyways, I think it's specific for her. There are many threads on her marriage and who she will marry. That's mainly what people talk about when it comes to her so the shipping probably goes hand in hand. The player talk is secondary to that.

It's weird and annoying that this fandom does it only with one person. I don't see that with other fandoms. There might be a character who is more popular to be shipped with say Hermione but that doesn't mean that people don't ship Ginny with people.

[Winter's Knight]

K3....you're my dog(kat?) but I have to say...have you romanticized Sandor a little bit? I mean people with severe third degree burns on half their face aren't exactly considered attractive from a purely aesthetical standpoint. Is this like an inner beauty thing or what? I also don't remember any character describing the hound as comely or anything.

I don't mean to sound patronising, but honey if you think Sandor is romanticised, stay the hell away from the Phantom of the Opera fanbase.

[Kittykatknits]

I don't think he's an alcoholic tbh. I think Robert was. Sandor was never drunk on the job, except when there was wildfire all over the city. He only drank on his time off, but unfortunately it was when he saw most of him.

That's why I put the qualifier in there of him being a functional alcoholic. I don't think he drank the way Robert did but it seems like he does it to drown out him misery on a regular enough basis which I don't think is a healthy behavior. There may be a better word than functional but I'm not sure what it is. But, I'd say he doesn't have a healthy relationship with alcohol.

[Winter's Knight]

It's mainly incestuous stuff. Anyways, I think it's specific for her. There are many threads on her marriage and who she will marry. That's mainly what people talk about when it comes to her so the shipping probably goes hand in hand. The player talk is secondary to that.

It's weird and annoying that this fandom does it only with one person. I don't see that with other fandoms. There might be a character who is more popular to be shipped with say Hermione but that doesn't mean that people don't ship Ginny with people.

t's mainly because Martin himself ships her with everyone: Willa, Tyrion, Sandor, Harry..

[Kittykatknits]

mmmmmk thanks for clearing that up, do you rememer the "why all the love for the hound" thread? That was a pretty good meditation on the Hound. I put in my two cents there that I too respect his skills as a warrior and find him an intriguing/interesting character. I kinda hope he found peace, I mean his life was irrevocably altered at like age 8, wrong place and the wrong with a brother whose basically evil incarnate.

Know of the thread? I wrote a manifesto in that thing. I've made the study of Sandor an art form. Seriously, I have most of his lines memorized and have done multiple re-readings for his character.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/69433-why-all-the-love-for-the-hound/page__st__20#entry3337868

[ARYa_Nym]

t's mainly because Martin himself ships her with everyone: Willa, Tyrion, Sandor, Harry..

Possibly but Dany might get a few of the main or second tier characters. People hate her nowadays though.

I wonder if the difference is that people like Sansa because she's virginal and innocent so they don't want their favorite characters with someone like Arianne, Dany, or Asha.

[StannisBamfatheon]

I don't mean to sound patronising, but honey if you think Sandor is romanticised, stay the hell away from the Phantom of the Opera fanbase.

hah I'll take your word for it and stay away, it will live in the realm of my imagination...

And it's cool, it takes a lot to ruffle my feathers pally it's no big deal.

ETA: just read your post k3, eaaaaassssyyy Tiger. I was just curious!

[ARYa_Nym]

I think the Hound is romanticized. Someone on ONTD called it "woobified". It's not as bad as the Loki stans or some other but he get downplayed a lot.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

I don't mean to sound patronising, but honey if you think Sandor is romanticised, stay the hell away from the Phantom of the Opera fanbase.

HAHA! So true! And don't forget the Harry Potter Snape-shippers.

t's mainly because Martin himself ships her with everyone: Willa, Tyrion, Sandor, Harry..

Wylla Manderly/Sansa? Did they interact in the books? (I just had a cracky thought - Daario/Wylla. It would pry Daario away from Dany and give Wylla a source of unlimited free Tyroshi hair dye! ) ETA: You meant Willas Tyrell...and yes, that was canon, or would have been if the plans had worked out! So many of the canon names are so similar that it's easy to get mixed up.

I don't hate the idea of Dany/Jon (and, for the record, I love them both) but with their not having met it's hard for me to get a handle on how they'd interact. I think in a way shipping is easier if the two characters have met and interacted OR if one is a minor enough character that they could be a blank slate or accommodate the more major character.

With Arianne - the nice thing about her is that she doesn't have to be married to have a sex life (yay Dornish customs!). But if she marries then it would have to be with someone who could go live in Dorne and be a prince consort or whatever the husband of a Dornish ruling princess is called.

[Kittykatknits]

It's mainly incestuous stuff. Anyways, I think it's specific for her. There are many threads on her marriage and who she will marry. That's mainly what people talk about when it comes to her so the shipping probably goes hand in hand. The player talk is secondary to that.

It's weird and annoying that this fandom does it only with one person. I don't see that with other fandoms. There might be a character who is more popular to be shipped with say Hermione but that doesn't mean that people don't ship Ginny with people.

t's mainly because Martin himself ships her with everyone: Willa, Tyrion, Sandor, Harry..

I think it's because of the marriage storylines, there is an assumption that this is her inevitable end. I can't speak for other fandoms as I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to what they are like. ASOIAF is the only one that I've ever cared enough about to dig a bit deeper.

ETA: just wrote your post k3, eaaaaassssyyy Tiger. I was just curious!

LOL, I can't help myself. He's one of my favorite characters so once I start talking, it's hard to stop. Funny thing is, I really hated the guy first time I read the series. A lot.

I think the Hound is romanticized. Someone on ONTD called it "woobified". It's not as bad as the Loki stans or some other but he get downplayed a lot.

I would agree although I see very little of it on this forum. Too bad as I think it's a disservice to his character.

[ARYa_Nym]

HAHA! So true! And don't forget the Harry Potter Snape-shippers.

Wylla Manderly/Sansa? Did they interact in the books? (I just had a cracky thought - Daario/Wylla. It would pry Daario away from Dany and give Wylla a source of unlimited free Tyroshi hair dye! ) ETA: You meant Willas Tyrell...and yes, that was canon, or would have been if the plans had worked out! So many of the canon names are so similar that it's easy to get mixed up.

I don't hate the idea of Dany/Jon (and, for the record, I love them both) but with their not having met it's hard for me to get a handle on how they'd interact. I think in a way shipping is easier if the two characters have met and interacted OR if one is a minor enough character that they could be a blank slate or accommodate the more major character.

Sansa gets shipped with tons of people she hasn't met yet. Willas, Harry, Aegon, Edric Dayne. I've seen some Gendry. Mance. Pick a male character and then someone will say Sansa will be best as his wife. She is what he needs. It doesn't matter what his type is or if they're compatible.