James Arryn Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I think Ned's swordcraft is hard to pin down. The only sources for it are he himself, and he trends towards modesty.I think he was probably respected as a guy you didn't want to fight, but I'll bet that was an overall smart/tough/experienced/skilled combo rather than straight up elite fighter.I think he was more impressive as a general, but again...hard to pin down.Certainly he seemed to be respected if you were on his side and feared if you weren't.Mance is great vs. people who live outside the society formed on formalized martial training. Probably betokens a great deal about his physical toughness, strength, speed, etc. But against a trained knight of some status? Hard to say. He was considered the best of the NW, but we have no real scale for that. Jon is probably the best of the NW now, and when in Winterfell he wasn't exactly basking in fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourne Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Really? who still lived at the TOJ even if it was 7 vs 3, it was Ned.When the smallfolk talk on who killed the sword of the morning, the great athur dayne they probably say Ned did. Hes pretty underrated when in truth he shouldve been a superstar warrior after destroying the targaryan reign with help from robert. Robert killed Rhaegar but Ned Killed Dayne who was a million times a better warrior than Rheagar ever was.You're speculating. Actually, I take that back. You are disregarding the facts. Ned specifically say of Dayne "He would of killed me, but for Howland Reed." we know Ned wasn't as good as Dayne. Even more importantly, GRRM has states that Ned was competent, but not great, with a sword.Mance would beat Ned even worse than the lesson he gave Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrions sliced nose Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 You're speculating. Actually, I take that back. You are disregarding the facts. Ned specifically say of Dayne "He would of killed me, but for Howland Reed." we know Ned wasn't as good as Dayne.Even more importantly, GRRM has states that Ned was competent, but not great, with a sword.Mance would beat Ned even worse than the lesson he gave Jon.He still killed him, you think the Lord Commander of the kingsguard with help of the greatest knight to ever have lived plus another kingsgaurd could do away with only 7 knights. Jamie Lannister went through what 10 people to get to robb stark and yet Arthur Dayne couldnt kill Ned. cmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourne Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 He still killed him, you think the Lord Commander of the kingsguard with help of the greatest knight to ever have lived plus another kingsgaurd could do away with only 7 knights. Jamie Lannister went through what 10 people to get to robb stark and yet Arthur Dayne couldnt kill Ned. cmonJaime's better than Arthur Dayne. Its not like Ned's compatriots were shitty fighters. Ned hand picked them. And it doesn't matter if Ned survived, he specifically said he wasn't better than Dayne. Using that fight as proof of his prowess is absurd.Also, I'm half joking about Dayne and Jaime. But it's ridiculous to compare the two situations. Jaime was fighting in a large battle with 200 hundred men on his side. He was still vastly outnumbered, but there a huge difference between 7 vs. 3 and 5000 vs. 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Jaime's better than Arthur Dayne.Also, I'm half joking about Dayne and Jaime.....and the other half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrions sliced nose Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Jaime's better than Arthur Dayne.Its not like Ned's compatriots were shitty fighters. Ned hand picked them. And it doesn't matter if Ned survived, he specifically said he wasn't better than Dayne. Using that fight as proof of his prowess is absurd.Also, I'm half joking about Dayne and Jaime. But it's ridiculous to compare the two situations. Jaime was fighting in a large battle with 200 hundred men on his side. He was still vastly outnumbered, but there a huge difference between 7 vs. 3 and 5000 vs. 200.Ned grew up fighting his big brother at winterfell and getting trained by probably a damn good knight there, i would think, then headed over to the Vale to be practice buddys with Robert Baratheon. Id have to say that he was getting the best training in the realm being such a highborn. And regardless if hes not as good as Arthur Dayne which i dont think he is either he easily would be better than Mance. Just surviving a fight with Arthur Dayne should prove how good of a knight Ned was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrions sliced nose Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 oops double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblair Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Ned talked about a lot of things it seems he never quite got around to - repopulating the Gift, repairing Moat Cailin, taking out the Wildlings. In that respect, he very much reminds me of myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Daemon Blackfyre Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Ned talked about a lot of things it seems he never quite got around to - repairing Moat Cailin...This should have been a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximilian Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The Old Bear was determined to hit the Wildlings hard with 300 disciplined brothers and Mance agrees thathe would have given him hell.Later KIng Stannis, a great commander, crushed him with about what, 2000 men?Mance vast wildling army against Ned in command of 18000 Northmen would be brutalwith clear results in Ned's favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManDennis Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Does Ned have Ice? Because whatever old pos sword Mance has probably will shatter on Ned's first cut.If not, probably Mance. Younger bigger faster stronger, well trained... Ned's days of slaying the king's guard are well behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrions sliced nose Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Does Ned have Ice? Because whatever old pos sword Mance has probably will shatter on Ned's first cut.If not, probably Mance. Younger bigger faster stronger, well trained... Ned's days of slaying the king's guard are well behind him.Ned is around 35-36 when he died where Mance is in his 50s, GRRM said he sees him as the same age as the halfhand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourne Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Ned grew up fighting his big brother at winterfell and getting trained by probably a damn good knight there, i would think, then headed over to the Vale to be practice buddys with Robert Baratheon. Id have to say that he was getting the best training in the realm being such a highborn. And regardless if hes not as good as Arthur Dayne which i dont think he is either he easily would be better than Mance. Just surviving a fight with Arthur Dayne should prove how good of a knight Ned was.Except, as I said, GRRM has has told us that Ned was nothing special. That overrules any assumptions you can make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrions sliced nose Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Except, as I said, GRRM has has told us that Ned was nothing special. That overrules any assumptions you can make.Id like to see a quote if you dont mind. A not too special Ned is still probably better thanOld man Mance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Maybe Mance's plan was to lure northern forces beyond the Wall, let them kill the Others and wights or let the Others and wights kill them. In either case it would be better situation for Mance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1NGSLAYER Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Id like to see a quote if you dont mind. A not too special Ned is still probably better thanOld man ManceI think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself there, I think Ned was a skilled fighter but not near as good as someone like Arthur Dayne, or Jaime, and while he might have had more skilled then Mance, I think that Mance would have beaten him, you don't become King beyond the Wall without being a great warrior, and Mance wouldn't have been able to beat all of the other contenders if he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The Old Bear was determined to hit the Wildlings hard with 300 disciplined brothers and Mance agrees thathe would have given him hell.Later KIng Stannis, a great commander, crushed him with about what, 2000 men?Mance vast wildling army against Ned in command of 18000 Northmen would be brutalwith clear results in Ned's favour.1000 actually. 3-4000 Northmen would be more than a fair fight against the Wildlings, any more and they would be worse than curbstomped.On the other hand, Mance would be better mano-a-mano. But Ned wouldn't be crackbrained enough for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew May Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 surely all the northern fighting men could be used to man the wall and wait until mance attacked, we saw how the night watch held the gate with much fewer and much more inexperienced men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 surely all the northern fighting men could be used to man the wall and wait until mance attacked, we saw how the night watch held the gate with much fewer and much more inexperienced menCould be. Why should they? Get north of it with a tenth of it, kick Mance's ass and return home. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 This is no discussion. Ned would win. The Wildlings are an ill-organized group of fighters with little training in arms and few quality weapons whereas Ned has access to royal standard armies of men all of whom have proper swords, axes, bows and horses.On top of all that Ned is a brilliant commander. Mance seems a good commander too but he has not the resources to win here. Ned would probably do what Stannis did; send a wave of proper horsemen/knights to ride through the wildling's ranks and kill loads of them and scatter the others with minimal losses. We saw how the wildings responded to a cavalry attack, even if it was a shock attack.Or Ned could also probably lure the Wildings to the base of the wall and toss down arrows and boiling oil and stuff like that.Easy win for the Ned. Then he could send a few experienced Night's Watch raiders alongwith some backup to hunt for Mance when the enemy is weak enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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