LITTLEFINGER - SANSA PLOT PROBLEM

[samih]

Little finger has helped Sansa, so I don't see why she wouldn't be in his debt- she has no one else to protect her. Hell, I would help him!

He killed Lysa who tried to kill Sansa, and saved her from Joffrey and the Lannisters. He helped Lady Olenna poison Joff. That's pretty awesome. What choice does she have?

He is the only one looking out for her, and I would trust him to keep me alive if I were her.

You're right he helped her a lot...but he was actually helping himself. Sansa is an important piece in his master plan and that's why he needs her. Even the affection he shows towards her is actually towards the "Catelyn" in her. Plus he did betray her father in King's Landing.

After all the trauma she has experienced (I suppose I say this after myself having experienced a similar situation with a jealous-drunken-stepmum-type-figure a few years ago as Sansa did with Lysa, minus a moon door) I couldn't imagine how she also feels after seeing her dad get killed, joffrey humilate her and all the beatings and knowing her family are all basically dead, the situation she is in now must feel pretty good. She has no one to abuse her anymore and isn't in the constant threat of danger as she was before, and now she also has no one else, NO ONE to rely on. So not only is she alone and feeling lost and broken, but for whatever she DOES HAVE, she has Littlefinger to thank for it.

When someone is that broken down, it's very easy to get them to rely on you totally because they have been beaten down so much mentally and have no where else to turn. Littlefinger asking for a kiss here and there would seem like nothing (besides, in the show I find him HOT but then again i'm a bit older than Sansa haha so it's different!) compared to what she has gained from being around him. I would not run away because without him she would be screwed!

She is lucky to be Catelyns daughter, and lucky he happened to love Cat. That's her strength, her beauty and character help the position she is in rather than being "brash". Being cunning and charming will take her far, and women can play men like they play their war games haha.

She has been in terrible situations but as i said LF had a hand in them. And I think it is exactly because of these horrible things she's been through that she will turn against LF. And when I say "turn against" and I don't mean run away from him; I mean she will defy him, ruin his plan, and make her own plans. And btw till now Sansa is just charming...not cunning. It's the way I see her at least. But like i said, i believe she will change.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Yeah Sansa will be in a great position to get revenge on LF, if she is told about LF's betrayal of her father. Otherwise as the Young Queen of Thornes points out, he's her knight in shining armor. Perhaps it will be the fate of all of the Stark children to get instruction from someone (lvl up) and then destory their mentor rather than be controlled (ie Bran kills/defeats BR escapes/stays in tree, Arya kills/defeats KM escapes, Sansa kills/defeats LF).

I also can't shake the feeling that Sansa is the younger and more beautiful queen that Cersei was warned about by Maggie the frog. I mean Cersei's trouble, and subsiquently her children's deaths, began when she met Sansa, and Sansa's beauty is mentioned again and again. When she returns to KL she will be a radiant woman with the political savvy of LF, and every manner of men clammering for her favor.

[brashcandy]

After all the trauma she has experienced (I suppose I say this after myself having experienced a similar situation with a jealous-drunken-stepmum-type-figure a few years ago as Sansa did with Lysa, minus a moon door) I couldn't imagine how she also feels after seeing her dad get killed, joffrey humilate her and all the beatings and knowing her family are all basically dead, the situation she is in now must feel pretty good. She has no one to abuse her anymore and isn't in the constant threat of danger as she was before, and now she also has no one else, NO ONE to rely on. So not only is she alone and feeling lost and broken, but for whatever she DOES HAVE, she has Littlefinger to thank for it.

When someone is that broken down, it's very easy to get them to rely on you totally because they have been beaten down so much mentally and have no where else to turn. Littlefinger asking for a kiss here and there would seem like nothing (besides, in the show I find him HOT but then again i'm a bit older than Sansa haha so it's different!) compared to what she has gained from being around him. I would not run away because without him she would be screwed!

She is lucky to be Catelyns daughter, and lucky he happened to love Cat. That's her strength, her beauty and character help the position she is in rather than being "brash". Being cunning and charming will take her far, and women can play men like they play their war games haha.

The problem with your argument is that Sansa is not beaten down mentally at all. What we do see is someone who's realised the danger she's in and has made the conscious decision to align themselves with LF - for now. However, we know he wanted her to be Alayne Stone in her heart, and she fed him lies and arbor gold, thought about throwing herself at Bronze Yohn's feet but decided against it, and in the final chapter of AFFC, has quite an adverse reaction to his plan to marry her off to Harry the Heir. All signs are pointing to Sansa making definite moves against LF's plots in TWOW, and either reclaiming her identity as Sansa Stark on her own terms, or continuing to use the alias of Alayne Stone, but in keeping with the words of Mya: "A mountain is not a man, though, and a stone is a mountain's daughter."

[MrsManderly]

Going back on earlier musings on this thread, my thoughts regarding LF's attitude to Sansa is that:

1) because of his childhood infatuation with Catelyn - his one known "weakness" if it can be called such - and because of Sansa's own charms, LF is taken by Sansa and is getting sloppy in what he tells her

2) in addition, he probably enjoys showing off to her as the worldly experienced plotmaster - which by definition involves him revealing his hand to Sansa to some extent

3) like so many others, he underestimates Sansa and probably reckons that there ins't too much harm in letting her in on a few of his moves, because what is she going to do about it anyway?

Like Brash Candy and other Sansa fans, I must admit to hoping that Sansa takes some clever decisive action and this comes back to bite LF in the backside

[straits]

Littlefinger betrayed Ned? When?

Since when does LF owe Ned anything? LF offered a helping hand which was ready to switch into a dagger should Ned do something retarded like make a public announcement of Cercei's kids with Jamie. I would not have stood with Ned unless he was a friend or family member. To LF, he is neither.

[samih]

Littlefinger betrayed Ned? When?

Since when does LF owe Ned anything? LF offered a helping hand which was ready to switch into a dagger should Ned do something retarded like make a public announcement of Cercei's kids with Jamie. I would not have stood with Ned unless he was a friend or family member. To LF, he is neither.

He clearly betrayed him. He let him think the gold cloaks were on his side. He lied to him and tricked him. Even if he wasn't officially his ally it's still called betrayal.