If Ned had told Robert...

[evita mgfs]

It would depend on WHEN Ned told him. How much could he have absorbed and reacted to in his condition? Although, learning this may have made him mad enough to spite Cersei and live! :dunno: :idea: :lol:

[House Cearl]

Before the boar "accident" = Lots and lots of dead Lannisters.

After the boar "accident" = Nothing much.

[The Frosted King]

If Ned tells Robert and brings proof, war comes to the seven kingdoms. And its a war that the Lannisters are heavily slated to lose.

Renly secures the marriage of Robert and Marg after Cersei and her children are attainted. Thus giving him the reach.

The North stands with Robert, as do the Stormlands, Riverlands, and Reach.

LF likely senses the way the wind is blowing, and brings the Vale in under Lysa.

This much power arrayed against the West, Dorne marches north calling for blood.

Tywin has only two options...

Eminent destruction of his house, or disavowment of Cersei and Jaime and their brood.

Robert likely demands the voiding of the Crowns debts to Casterly Rock. The realm is no long abjectly bankrupt.

Either way, Lannister power is shamed for generations to come.

Or Robert disavows Cersei publicly and names her children as bastards, with the words of Eddard Stark and Stannis Baratheon lending weight to it, the suspicious death of Jon Arryn explained, etc.

Robert still dies, but with the children revealed to be bastards born of incest, the Lannisters are now persona non grata in terms of potential alliances.

War comes, but is messier.

[Arkantos]

Roses would be growing beyond the wall and the Others would all have strange square shaped holes in them.

[* Winter is Coming *]

ASoIaF would have been a single book

[Willtrade]

Cersei and her kids would all die and Jaime (and possibly Tyrion) would have been sent to the Wall. War would have been avoided.

Aren't you guys forgetting that all Westeros depends on the Lannister gold?? That Robert and Tywin dislike each other already? There would be such a big war, as the one that is happening now. Stannis+North+Robert+Renly+Tully. I think Kingslanding would be part suporting Robert( the loyals) and part suporting Lannister+High Garden(the ones with debts and starv). Daenerys would keep her self on her own path, Greyjoy and Dorne would still take advanage from the situation( but the attack on Winterfell wouldn't be so "great", becouse Ned still alive, and he still have his family united)

[GallowsKnight]

It depends but I think really it's a lot simpler than most people think. Ned tells Robert, but manages to keep him from killing Jaime, Cersei and the kids. Then they call a grand council for the first time in hundreds of years to try them.

Evidence would be brought forward. Maester's observations on genetics, the book of lineage, confirmed bastards like Edric Storm and lesser ones that can be proven to be Robert's (Gendry, Myra, Barra). Then even offspring of other Lannisters (there's a lot) to show that golden hair is uncommon with dark haired parents.

As for Jaime being the father that's much harder. Short of him or Cersei admitting it (the latter being a lot likely), the case rests on him perhaps throwing Bran from a window. Not a lot of strong evidence there.

Ultimately the black for Jaime, Joffrey and Tommen. The Silent sisters for Cersei and maybe Septa training for Myrcella.

Throughout this Tywin really can't do much. Ned and Robert have his children hostage. He'll have to settle for either Tyrion or Lancel or Tyrek inheriting Casterly Rock.

[Lord Boltons flaying knife]

I believe he would have killed them, yes. As big a fool as Robert became as he aged and dulled his senses with wine and whores he could not have failed to notice how much sense it all made when the facts where in his face.

Now, Tywin isnt going to take this on the chin, but given the Renley, knight of Flowers alliance and what we learned in the books, i have no doubt Robert would have been wedded to Margaery pretty quickly and happily, granting the Tyrels one hand on the throne and putting them exactly where they want to be, so that leaves them out. Obbiously the Dornish hate him too, as well as the North, the Riverlands and the Eyrie. Not much heart to take from that really.

Still tho, with enough gold too buy ever sellsword in Essos, his own formidable host, and the possibility of Northern treachery. I wouldnt count Twin out entirely. Especially with wiley Walder Frey controlling the crossing.

[Lonin]

If Ned tells Robert and brings proof

We the readers know lots of stuff about Cersei and Jaime. The people of the Seven Kingdoms MUCH less.

But, proof??? there is none.. hair color? The hair color is not news. A little evidence against Cersei, There is no evidence that Jaime is the father.

Cersei will claim she is innocent... demand trial by combat. Jaime will also claim he is innocent, he will be more than willing to prove his innocence via trial by combat.

[TheCrannogDweller]

I think Kingslanding would be part suporting Robert( the loyals) and part suporting Lannister+High Garden(the ones with debts and starv).

You're forgetting that Highgarden initially sided with Renly. And with the Lannisters out of the Royal family, they really don't have anything to offer the Tyrells. Mace is rich enough on his own and his dream is to join his family with the king's - so he would've probably given Margaery to Robert (something that Renly was already plotting before his death).

Still tho, with enough gold too buy ever sellsword in Essos, his own formidable host, and the possibility of Northern treachery. I wouldnt count Twin out entirely. Especially with wiley Walder Frey controlling the crossing.

First, even Lord Tywin's gold wasn't limitless. And with the rest of the Kingdoms against him, it would've been a very short war.

Second, Lord Walder is an opportunistic coward - he only acted when he had Tywin's assurances that the king will pardon him and he'll get to be Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. Besides, he was also slighted by Robb - which wouldn't have happened in that version of events.

And the North - well, in that situation Roose Bolton's plan had zero chance of success - so there would not have been a Northern treachery.

[evita mgfs]

It depends but I think really it's a lot simpler than most people think. Ned tells Robert, but manages to keep him from killing Jaime, Cersei and the kids. Then they call a grand council for the first time in hundreds of years to try them.

Evidence would be brought forward. Maester's observations on genetics, the book of lineage, confirmed bastards like Edric Storm and lesser ones that can be proven to be Robert's (Gendry, Myra, Barra). Then even offspring of other Lannisters (there's a lot) to show that golden hair is uncommon with dark haired parents.

As for Jaime being the father that's much harder. Short of him or Cersei admitting it (the latter being a lot likely), the case rests on him perhaps throwing Bran from a window. Not a lot of strong evidence there.

Ultimately the black for Jaime, Joffrey and Tommen. The Silent sisters for Cersei and maybe Septa training for Myrcella.

Throughout this Tywin really can't do much. Ned and Robert have his children hostage. He'll have to settle for either Tyrion or Lancel or Tyrek inheriting Casterly Rock.

They will have to get Bran to testify - he was an eye witness. :idea: :laugh:

[GallowsKnight]

We the readers know lots of stuff about Cersei and Jaime. The people of the Seven Kingdoms MUCH less.

But, proof??? there is none.. hair color? The hair color is not news. A little evidence against Cersei, There is no evidence that Jaime is the father.

Cersei will claim she is innocent... demand trial by combat. Jaime will also claim he is innocent, he will be more than willing to prove his innocence via trial by combat.

Shit. Trial by combat. I forgot that, the Lannisters have most of the best fighters in their camp, Jaime, Gregor and Sandor. Barristan might be willing to fight Jaime, not sure who else would.

But as for proof. There is plenty, you bring forth the book of Linaege. Robert's collective bastards and get Maesters from the Citadel who have surely studied some rough form of genetics.

They will have to get Bran to testify - he was an eye witness. :idea: :laugh:

The problem is will he remember? The defence would claim that his parents have fed him the lines even if he does.

[Ser Areo Mace]

We would have quite a different story but I think it would be just as interesting. We would have Cersei and possibly Jaime fleeing KL with the Red Cloaks back to The Rock, Tywin may call his banners to protect the image of House Lannister and he would also hire sellswords, but we don't know if all his Banners would come to him or would side with the Crown. I feel there could be a story still with Stannis due to Robert's dislike of him and Robert possibly naming Renly or even legitimizing Gendry or Edric Storm as his heir, so their could be the whole shadow babies thing going on. Robert would call his banners and Ned would sent for the Northernmen to march so we still could have Balon and the Iron men rebelling again and taking Moat Cailin to cut the North off from home. Littlefinger would still be plotting also well as Varys, so we would still get their story lines going just in a different direction and time frames.

[evita mgfs]

Shit. Trial by combat. I forgot that, the Lannisters have most of the best fighters in their camp, Jaime, Gregor and Sandor. Barristan might be willing to fight Jaime, not sure who else would.

But as for proof. There is plenty, you bring forth the book of Linaege. Robert's collective bastards and get Maesters from the Citadel who have surely studied some rough form of genetics.The problem is will he remember? The defence would claim that his parents have fed him the lines even if he does.

Well, I hope he remembers. He is supposed to be a god now.

But I worry about him traveling - because he is stuck in a ww throne and Winter has come!

[Florina Laufeyson]

They will have to get Bran to testify - he was an eye witness. :idea: :laugh:

Thing is, Bran cant seem to remember that. For reasons i am unsure of, he gets all weird and even a bit ill when he tries to remember why he fell. All he can remember is voices and even then, he starts getting all wiggy. I wonder if thats just a sort of defense mechanism of his or something magical going on. (probably the former though.)

[coldplums8]

Crap. Now I really, really want to find out. :( Maybe if GRRM ever finishes the series he can elucidate how some alternate scenarios might have played out. Hurr hurr. It's funny because he won't finish the series.

[Larry of the Lawn]

The second book would have been titled "Brokeback Barrowlands"

[Lord Boltons flaying knife]

Crap. Now I really, really want to find out. :( Maybe if GRRM ever finishes the series he can elucidate how some alternate scenarios might have played out. Hurr hurr. It's funny because he won't finish the series.

Please dont say that. That scares me.

[MisterCrist]

For the trial by combat make it the trial of seven

Seven of the Kings greatest warriors vs Seven of the Lannisters warriors.

[callmedodge]

Trial by combat, Cersei and Jaime would most likely win, Robert would be killed of anyway and Ned would either run back North or be killed himself.

The events of Clash would play out almost exactly the same unless Ned survived. In that case he would just stay North, fortify Moat Cailin and wait for winter. We`d also get much quicker closure on Jon and a North much more prepared for another Long Night.

Ned would probably throw his lot in with Stannis when Stannis moves north to defend the Wall. Overall, less entertaining.