Is Roose Bolton up to something? (Yes obviously) but is he up to something else?

[rinto_tinto]

Roose Bolton seems to have a peculiar goal in mind when it comes to Ramsay and the future of his house. At one point he tells Theon that it seems inevitable that his true-born sons with Fats Frey (I don't remember her actual name, probably Walda or some variation thereof) will be killed by Ramsay who will see them as rivals and even goes so far to suggest that this is a good thing as he (Roose) is too old to raise another son and that boy lords are the bane of any house.

This is all well and good and perhaps to be expected from a man known for his lack of any obvious emotions. On the other hand however he seems to have a certain amount of disdain for Ramsay for the bastard taint in his blood and his distinct lack of subtlety. He even asks "Does he truly think that he could ever rule the North?" which seems to imply that it isn't his intention for his legacy to be 'Ramsay Bolton Warden of the North'.

We also see a strange discrepancy in how much Roose cares about his legacy, on the one hand he certainly seems ambitious but this seems to be at odds with the 'he's just messing with people' feeling of what Lady Dustin has to say about him.

What do you think Roose wants to happen to his house and who does he want to rule the North after his death?

[PrinceHenryris]

I think Roose knows that both he and House Bolton are living on borrowed time. Most of the North hates him, and they like Ramsay even less. Even if his Frey and Lannister allies wanted to support him, they're in no position to do so. The Lannister forces are weakened and disorganized, and not likely to lift a finger to help any way. They Freys might be more willing to help in the hopes of having a half-Frey Warden of the North, but I don't see their forces making it through the Neck.

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

Anyone else think Roose and House Bolton are steeped in enough ancient creepiness/horror that they may actually be able to cut a deal with the Others and become their agents (Night's King)?

[Black Maester Sam]

It's certainly crossed my mind.

[Knight errant]

Anyone else think Roose and House Bolton are steeped in enough ancient creepiness/horror that they may actually be able to cut a deal with the Others and become their agents (Night's King)?

In a word: No. I however do think they have enough history to not just be wiped out. fat Walda's probably pregnant and whatever happens to Roose and co. I assume he'll have one more child born and probably fostered off elsewhere to continue the line, I mean he may be dead by that point but I can't imagine the vengeful northmen killing a child for no reason.

[rinto_tinto]

I think Roose knows that both he and House Bolton are living on borrowed time. Most of the North hates him, and they like Ramsay even less. Even if his Frey and Lannister allies wanted to support him, they're in no position to do so. The Lannister forces are weakened and disorganized, and not likely to lift a finger to help any way. They Freys might be more willing to help in the hopes of having a half-Frey Warden of the North, but I don't see their forces making it through the Neck.

That's sort of what I thought but it seems to go against what Roose says to Theon about boy-lords, if he thought he and his house were ruined anyway why would he concern himself with how it's probably a good thing that Ramsay and not a child will be his heir. I also don't think the Bolton's situation is as dire as you make out, admittedly it's odds-on that it's not going to end well for them but on the whole they don't have any really strong enemies in the north and most northern lords seem slightly less reluctant to follow him than Stannis.

[PrinceHenryris]

That's sort of what I thought but it seems to go against what Roose says to Theon about boy-lords, if he thought he and his house were ruined anyway why would he concern himself with how it's probably a good thing that Ramsay and not a child will be his heir. I also don't think the Bolton's situation is as dire as you make out, admittedly it's odds-on that it's not going to end well for them but on the whole they don't have any really strong enemies in the north and most northern lords seem slightly less reluctant to follow him than Stannis.

I see your point. I used to think the same way, but on a re-read I noted Lady Dustin mentioning Roose enjoying the mind games. As a, supposedly, emotionless man, I feel that Roose sees the writing on the wall and is simply trying to keep the game going for as long as he can.

[Bayard]

Anyone else think Roose and House Bolton are steeped in enough ancient creepiness/horror that they may actually be able to cut a deal with the Others and become their agents (Night's King)?

All that horror is typical for medieval times, and it doesn't bother that much the Northerners. Lord Manderly thinks the same thing, when he talks to Davos. The Boltons are a little over the top, but their power can be appreciated. They managed to fight the Starks for thousands of years, so they did have houses and people loyal to them.

As for what Roose tells Theon, we can't trust a word of it. Theon is Ramsay's servent, Roose knows that probably everything he says will end up in Ramyas's ears. Let me ask you this, if Roose didn't care about his house, why would he legitimize Ramsay?? except the burning of Winterfell he has been of no use at all. The horrible stories about him is what keeps many of the other nobles from committing to Roose. With all the Starks dead, the logical choice for the next lords of the North actually are the Boltons, from a military POV and from tradition. If the only thing Roose wanted was to play some games, manipulate some people, it would be easier for him to get rid of his son... or even kill him, if he doesn't fear the kinslaying curse (not sure on what Roose thinks about religion).

In my opinion Roose is just biding his time for an opportunity. If Fat Walda gives birth to a boy, Ramsay is out of the picture!! Roose is not that old and he only needs to live for another 15 years. At that age his boy could become lord without a problem... Robb did it. He's actually a very unlucky man, he was very close to winning the North, he did almost everything perfectly. How could he guess that Bran and Rickon would survive alone, and why would he ever think that Stannis would sail to the Wall?? :)

[Valyrian Spoon]

In a word: No. I however do think they have enough history to not just be wiped out. fat Walda's probably pregnant and whatever happens to Roose and co. I assume he'll have one more child born and probably fostered off elsewhere to continue the line, I mean he may be dead by that point but I can't imagine the vengeful northmen killing a child for no reason.

Yeah the Theory that's been floating around the Boards for a bit regarding why the Boltons have survived to be a constant threat to the Starks, is because after the War/Rebellion was over the last remaining Bolton was a child and spared.

Yep I think Roose realises his time is up as of the end of ADWD.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

When the fighting breaks out between Frey and Manderly Theon notes something behind Lord Roose Bolton's eyes he's never seen there before... FEAR!

If Mel is correct there are "agents of the great other", we need more info to see if bolton is one of them.

[Frey Pie]

I had a crackpot theory in a Roose Bolton thread here that he was an agent of the Other, or a descendant of the Nights King. His eyes set him apart, ice like the Others and the only reason he likes Ramsay. He uses leeches to keep his blood clean constantly-we see Mel use leeches for dark magic. Theres the whole book burning in an Arya chapter in HH. Theres the flaying as a way of mocking/emulating the Starks. Its all in Bran Vras'-Roose Bolton thread

In addition he killed Robb personally, ordered his son to kill the other Stark boys and there has been antagonism between him Ramsay and Jon. Perhaps he knows something we dont, and has been knocking off Starks for the Others

[Knight errant]

When the fighting breaks out between Frey and Manderly Theon notes something behind Lord Roose Bolton's eyes he's never seen there before... FEAR!

If Mel is correct there are "agents of the great other", we need more info to see if bolton is one of them.

No, I say it is incredibly unlikely. Look at all the choices he's made seems to me he's pragmatic and sadistic rather than being "Pure evil", I mean how would he even bypass the wall and make contact with such a group? How would he make a pact with them anyway? Seems to me people just want to make Roose seem evil as possible because they are sore over the RW little actual evidence or reason to such theories.

[Frey Pie]

No, I say it is incredibly unlikely. Look at all the choices he's made seems to me he's pragmatic and sadistic rather than being "Pure evil", I mean how would he even bypass the wall and make contact with such a group? How would he make a pact with them anyway? Seems to me people just want to make Roose seem evil as possible because they are sore over the RW little actual evidence or reason to such theories.

Id say hanging a womans husband, then raping her infront of its pretty evil

[Knight errant]

Id say hanging a womans husband, then raping her infront of its pretty evil

Still, it isn't seek to end the world and align with the most malignant creatures on the planet who want to bring an end to all Human life evil, is it? And Rape in this series...Hmmm yeah, that's uncommon. The Umbers do the same thing as him, I believe he says... Anyway, I don't think he is good, just not that diabolic or capable to contact the Others, it's so unfeasable with too much put down to "Well he's a bad guy too".

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Still, it isn't seek to end the world and align with the most malignant creatures on the planet who want to bring an end to all Human life evil, is it? And Rape in this series...Hmmm yeah, that's uncommon. The Umbers do the same thing as him, I believe he says... Anyway, I don't think he is good, just not that diabolic or capable to contact the Others, it's so unfeasable with too much put down to "Well he's a bad guy too".

I hear what you're saying. But by your logic there is no such thing as an "agent of the great other" and Mel is simply wrong here. Noone in the story is that evil...

But keep in mind the WW's are not necessarily pure evil either. They are motivated by something and may not want to destroy all living things, esp if they need the baby sacrifices (which old nan says fuels the wights).

Do you have any theories on why Roose burnt the book at Harrenhall?

General question for all: Are we supposed to make any connection between the Stark king that hung the men with their entrails out (Him that men called Ice Eyes) and the Bolton family? Theon/Arya described Boltons eyes as two chips of dirty ice or something like that.

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

General question for all: Are we supposed to make any connection between the Stark king that hung the men with their entrails out (Him that men called Ice Eyes) and the Bolton family? Theon/Arya described Boltons eyes as two chips of dirty ice or something like that.

I think his mother was a Bolton.

[David C. Hunter]

In a word: No. I however do think they have enough history to not just be wiped out. fat Walda's probably pregnant and whatever happens to Roose and co. I assume he'll have one more child born and probably fostered off elsewhere to continue the line, I mean he may be dead by that point but I can't imagine the vengeful northmen killing a child for no reason.

IMO, these are not the same Northmen that existed before the Red Wedding and ADWD goes out of it's way to show us this. I personally believe that the Northmen will kill any and everyone. Too many times in the past have the Northerners been merciful only to let it bite them in the ass. Greyjoys, Boltons, enough is enough and essentially the Northerners are becoming more merciless.

Cannibalism, Blood Sacrificing and Merciless revenge were all hinted at strongly in ADWD (Slavers vs Edric Stark; Brans vision of a Blood sacrifice, Manderly eating Frey Pies.)

No my friend...I expect the Northerners to go Tywin Lannister style on traitor houses. There is no time for Mercy, the Long Night is coming and the Kings of Winter need to establish themselves.

Roose, Ramsay, permanent turncloaks, Fat Walda and her baby will all be killed. Sorry, but in the words of Littlefinger, "Slit her throat, be done with it."

If it wasn't for the fact that some Greyjoys may actually help the North, I'd expect the North to annex the Iron Islands as well.

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

If it wasn't for the fact that some Greyjoys may actually help the North, I'd expect the North to annex the Iron Islands as well.

Oh for the Northmen to descend on the Iron Islands with fire and sword, as they did on the Three Sisters centuries ago to stop the slavers/pirates.

[jarl the climber]

Id say hanging a womans husband, then raping her infront of its pretty evil

Keep in mind that Roose consider hanging to be merciful. So he was in a good mood that day up to that point.

[Longspear Ryk]

General question for all: Are we supposed to make any connection between the Stark king that hung the men with their entrails out (Him that men called Ice Eyes) and the Bolton family? Theon/Arya described Boltons eyes as two chips of dirty ice or something like that.

I think his mother was a Bolton.

what if he was a Bolton wearing the skin of a Stark that was flayed......