Drogon's Dinner

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Agreed. I'm just unconvinced that we have conclusive, undeniable proof that Drogon killed the child. We have a bag of burned bones and a man who claims to be the only witness. It sounds viable, just...someone making up a story could have done something as convincing, I think.

That's fair enough. I don't see why he'd lie though.

[Lion of Judah]

No, but whoever paid him for his performance might have found it convenient to put the Queen's most visible symbols of power out of play.

Again, if you're looking for a good actor, you can probably find one amoung the not elite classes of Meereen. That doesn't prove anything by itself.

What you're suggesting can't be ruled out completely, but I think it's highly unlikely. It's never hinted that the Meereenese were interested in locking up her dragons and why would the goal be locking them up and not killing them? Hiring an actor would be a risk as well because there were many former slaves and poor people at court petitioning Dany. If he was an actor he would be known as one and lingering around till the end would risk being identified.

[mindchap]

Agreed. I'm just unconvinced that we have conclusive, undeniable proof that Drogon killed the child. We have a bag of burned bones and a man who claims to be the only witness. It sounds viable, just...someone making up a story could have done something as convincing, I think.

But along that same line absolutely nothing is proven in these books. No we don't get to watch Drogon devour a little girl, we don't get to see Gregor kill to babies, and we don't see the sword go through Ned's neck, but that doesn't make them all conspiracies. I see you're point but not a reason.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Why were they loose if they weren't tame?

Maybe she didn't know they weren't tame. They'd never been aggressive towards humans before. They'd mostly been free since they'd been unleashed in Astapor, and yet nobody'd been killed, hurt, or even threatened by them without Dany ordering it.

[Samsaptakas]

got to have little variety in your meal.

[Lion of Judah]

If you're arguing that she has no means to train them, she should put them down now then because they'll serve no practical purpose in Westeros. She isn't absolved because of her inability to train them. If anything, that puts her more at fault. Why were they loose if they weren't tame?

I'm not arguing that she doesn't have means to train them, I'm stating a fact that she doesn't have the means to train them. You brought up the argument of her intentionally not training her dragons which is flat out inaccurate. They were loose because they never ate a child before, once Drogon ate a child they were all locked up. Of course she bears responsibility they are her dragons, that responsibility does not translate to culpability however and that's where we differ.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I'm not arguing that she doesn't have means to train them, I'm stating a fact that she doesn't have the means to train them. You brought up the argument of her intentionally not training her dragons which is flat out inaccurate. They were loose because they never ate a child before, once Drogon ate a child they were all locked up. Of course she bears responsibility they are her dragons, that responsibility does not translate to culpability however and that's where we differ.

I never said she intentionally didn't train them, just that she didn't either way it goes. She should have enough common sense to not take chances with them around people. I'm sure there are books she could read about the nature of dragons and their tendency to do things such as what Drogon did.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Maybe she didn't know they weren't tame. They'd never been aggressive towards humans before. They'd mostly been free since they'd been unleashed in Astapor, and yet nobody'd been killed, hurt, or even threatened by them without Dany ordering it.

How is her failure to know whether or not her pets are tame an excuse on her behalf that it isn't her fault Drogon did what he did?

[The Idiots Lantern]

What you're suggesting can't be ruled out completely, but I think it's highly unlikely. It's never hinted that the Meereenese were interested in locking up her dragons and why would the goal be locking them up and not killing them?

If you're not sure how to kill a dragon, and you know the Queen would never allow it anyway, then aiming to have them locked up is a much less risky bet. But the weak little girl has tender heartstrings: spin her a tale of a dead child and a griving father and she'll put her own best weapons away, out of sight and out of mind.

Hiring an actor would be a risk as well because there were many former slaves and poor people at court petitioning Dany. If he was an actor he would be known as one and lingering around till the end would risk being identified.

I don't mean he was LITERALLY a professional actor. I mean if you want to find a farmer who can spin a convincing tale with a bag of bones, you can probably find one who can look appropriately sad.

It's too bad Private Investigators hasn't been invented yet in Westeros. I'd have sent someone discreet to check out the farmer's story: see if he lives where he claims to, what kind if family does he have, is his daughter really dead...

[Lion of Judah]

I never said she intentionally didn't train them, just that she didn't either way it goes. She should have enough common sense to not take chances with them around people. I'm sure there are books she could read about the nature of dragons and their tendency to do things such as what Drogon did.

Why would common sense be a forgone conclusion though? Who automatically assumes the worst of their pets? Sure they are dragons but they've never done anything like this before and if the goal is for them to grow then they needed to be outside.

[The Idiots Lantern]

How is her failure to know whether or not her pets are tame an excuse on her behalf that it isn't her fault Drogon did what he did?

I'm not convinced Drogon did what he did, but to have it your way, it never occurred to her to be afraid that her dragons might do something they've never done or expressed any interest in doing before...namely, eat people. They didn't seem to want to, until the day they suddenly did. Maybe Dany should have seen it coming, and is culpable that way, but she wasn't negligant if she didn't even know it was going to be a problem.

[Lion of Judah]

If you're not sure how to kill a dragon, and you know the Queen would never allow it anyway, then aiming to have them locked up is a much less risky bet. But the weak little girl has tender heartstrings: spin her a tale of a dead child and a griving father and she'll put her own best weapons away, out of sight and out of mind.

I don't mean he was LITERALLY a professional actor. I mean if you want to find a farmer who can spin a convincing tale with a bag of bones, you can probably find one who can look appropriately sad.

It's too bad Private Investigators hasn't been invented yet in Westeros. I'd have sent someone discreet to check out the farmer's story: see if he lives where he claims to, what kind if family does he have, is his daughter really dead...

You don't think that is a bit of an elaborate scheme for us to have absolutely no hint of it? A plan like this affects the story a great deal, no?

[The Idiots Lantern]

I never said she intentionally didn't train them, just that she didn't either way it goes. She should have enough common sense to not take chances with them around people. I'm sure there are books she could read about the nature of dragons and their tendency to do things such as what Drogon did.

It's stated that books about Dragons are extremely rare in the best of circumstances, and what books do exist are of dubious value. Tyrion has read some of them, but he's a Lannister with free access to most of the best libraries in the Seven Kingdoms. The Dothraki don't seem like big readers, and I didn't hear anything about Astapoor, Yukai or Meereen having libraries. Where Dany would find a book on Dragons, I couldn't tell you. Maybe there's one propping open a door she's about to pass through or something.

[The Idiots Lantern]

You don't think that is a bit of an elaborate scheme for us to have absolutely no hint of it? A plan like this affects the story a great deal, no?

Why would it affect the story a great deal?

[Lion of Judah]

Why would it affect the story a great deal?

It would be a plan to subtract the dragons from the equation and severely weaken Danys strength. It ultimately happened but if that was the intent why no hints of it?

[Guest]

He told her how it happened,

And there don't seem to be any actors that are that good if you reread the whole thing, this, to me, is legitimately a man who has lost a child.

That does not mean that is the entire story. Yes, he could legitimately watched as Drogon ate his kid. But then why are the cities not littered with the bones of small children? Easy prey right?

The man may or may not be innocent. Perhaps he's in league with the Sons of the Harpy and thought sacrificing his daughter was for the good of all, so he killed her, cooked her bones until they cracked, and lied about Drogon.

Perhaps he arrived seconds after she died and did not see some vital portion of what happened, and as far as he knows it is the truth. Maybe the Sons of the Harpy lured the girl where she would be vulnerable, and antagonized the dragon to the point he attacked and she was in the way. Perhaps they killed the girl first and threw her limp body on top of something he was already eating, we know he cooks dead meat to eat it. And then the father came, saw her body being eaten and assumed he had killed her.

I just really think that if Drogon had done it himself he would have killed and eaten a ton more humans.

Everyone in Mereen KNOWS how compassionate Dany is from the way she acts towards the slaves. There is every motivation for the Sons of the Harpy to murder some poor child and through one of the above scenarios guilt Dany into removing her dragons and thereby a large portion of her own powerbase.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

You must HATE pit-bull owners. Dragons aren't "pets" anymore then Direwolves are. Not training her dragons is her biggest mistake to date, but the INSTANT she heard they'd allegedly hurt someone, she stuck them in a pyramid to rot in chains. She gets no credit for that though. Because she's Dany.

Yeah because locking them in a pyramid is idiocy. It's not training them. It's burying the problem until it literally grows to big (and fierce) to deal with.