Drogon's Dinner

[Cold-King]

The father of little Hazzea is obviously distraught, and the way he waits for an empty hall instead of making a spectacle just inforces the fact IMO that lil Hazzea is Dragon Fodder :D

[The Idiots Lantern]

The father of little Hazzea is obviously distraught, and the way he waits for an empty hall instead of making a spectacle just inforces the fact IMO that lil Hazzea is Dragon Fodder :D

It's possible. But it's not conclusive.

[danm_999]

Edit: If your objective was to make the dragons LESS scary, you wouldn't publicly announce that they ate children. You want to make people less afraid of them, not more.

Sorry, but why is the objective to make them less scary? This makes no sense in itself and seems like a really stupid half measure. If you opposed Daenerys, your objective would clearly be to either kill them, or to steal them, rather than run a mildly nasty PR campaign where they're locked away.

If you're trying to do kill them, you want as many people to think of them as child murderers as possible, so you can incite people to have them killed, like what happens when Drogon attacks the fighting pit. People don't get scared, they get angry, and they build machinery designed to shoot Drogon out of the sky. It doesn't improve Daenerys' image in Meereen, it worsens it.

If they were trying to capture them, why did nobody (except Quentyn, who is in Volantis at this point) ever try to steal the dragons once they were locked in the dragon pit?

Because the dragons are symbolic of her power. Having them swooping around answering to no one except her might give the people the impression that she's formidable and someone to be feared and respected. If you want to chip away at her power over the population, stick her dragons in a hole where they can't scare anyone or come to the defense of Dany.

If they're that dangerous, the goal is going to be to kill or capture them, not have Daenerys lock them up.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Sorry, but why is the objective to make them less scary? This makes no sense in itself and seems like a really stupid half measure. If you opposed Daenerys, your objective would clearly be to either kill them, or to steal them, rather than run a mildly nasty PR campaign where they're locked away.

Maybe it's not about PR, then. Maybe...say your primary objective is to negate the threat they pose as quickly as possible. Yes you can design, build, and install weaponry designed to kill them from the air. But that takes time, it's hard to keep quiet, and the Queen will probably object. As for capturing them, same problem: the Queen will object. Plus there isn't much margin for trial and error. ..

If you're trying to do kill them, you want as many people to think of them as child murderers as possible, so you can incite people to have them killed, like what happens when Drogon attacks the fighting pit. People don't get scared, they get angry, and they build machinery designed to shoot Drogon out of the sky. It doesn't improve Daenerys' image in Meereen, it worsens it.

There is probably no public outcry big enough to convince Dany to kill her dragons. Nor is she likely to be happy about the installation of machines that could kill them for her. You need something big to convince her it's necessary to protect the people.

Oh look, some charred child bones. Looks like Drogon went and cooked a child. Her father is just the right amount of bereaved. Isn't that timely...

If they were trying to capture them, why did nobody (except Quentyn, who is in Volantis at this point) ever try to steal the dragons once they were locked in the dragon pit?

They're dragons. They are big. They tore right through their iron chains. They are melting the pyramid around them. Maybe it's a problem of logistics. Killing the guards and going into the pyramid is simple enough, but once in there, if your objective is to "steal" a dragon, how do you do that? How to you subdue it? How do you move it? Where do you take it?

The poor Frog Prince demonstrated what happens when you fail to take these minor details into account. He also forgot there were TWO dragons in there. That's one more complication.

Still, so long as they're locked up, you have time to come up with a plan. Because at least you know they're not going anywhere for now. When their loose in the sky, your options are more limited. Maybe fling a net at it? A fireproof net?And again there's the problem of where to stow an unwilling dragon after you've caught it. They don't fit in bird cages anymore.

Why lock them up, rather then capture or kill them?

Well because that's what Dany can most easily be easily meneuvered into. It negates their threat and gives you time to figure out how to take one for yourself...

[straits]

How is this timely or planned? Why is it a plot point rather than an event to be taken at face value? He ate a human child.

[danm_999]

Maybe it's not about PR, then. Maybe...say your primary objective is to negate the threat they pose as quickly as possible.

So kill them. They're quite little at this stage still, they can fit on Daenerys' shoulder. You wouldn't need the weaponry the Yunkish need later for Drogon.

There is probably no public outcry big enough to convince Dany to kill her dragons. Nor is she likely to be happy about the installation of machines that could kill them for her. You need something big to convince her it's necessary to protect the people.

I'm not suggesting they petition Daenerys to kill them, I'm suggesting they kill them themselves when one of them is attacking a sheep or something. Remember, they ain't huge yet. If they can get enough people angry enough, the dragons are vulnerable.

Oh look, some charred child bones. Looks like Drogon went and cooked a child. Her father is just the right amount of bereaved. Isn't that timely...

Not really. If you want to get people angry at Daenerys, you let the whole court hear.

They're dragons. They are big. They tore right through their iron chains. They are melting the pyramid around them. Maybe it's a problem of logistics. Killing the guards and going into the pyramid is simple enough, but once in there, if your objective is to "steal" a dragon, how do you do that? How to you subdue it? How do you move it? Where do you take it?

These problems only apply months later, when the fighting pits re-open, not when the Hazzea incident occurs. Daenerys has apparently given them free reign until that point, so it wouldn't be terribly difficult to incite the angry populace to capture/kill them.

The poor Frog Prince demonstrated what happens when you fail to take these minor details into account. He also forgot there were TWO dragons in there. That's one more complication.

Again, months later, and there's no suggestion that when they were free, they hunted in packs.

Still, so long as they're locked up, you have time to come up with a plan. Because at least you know they're not going anywhere for now. When their loose in the sky, your options are more limited. Maybe fling a net at it? A fireproof net?And again there's the problem of where to stow an unwilling dragon after you've caught it. They don't fit in bird cages anymore.

No, no no. Time is the enemy. The more times that passes, the bigger and stronger they get. You want to kill them when they're young, and weaker.

And what you especially don't want to do is put Daenerys in a situation where she keeps them under lock and key so you can't get to them. You want them out in the open while their little, since you'll have more opportunity to kill them.

Why lock them up, rather then capture or kill them?

Well because that's what Dany can most easily be easily meneuvered into. It negates their threat and gives you time to figure out how to take one for yourself...

How is it obvious that this is what Daenerys could be manoeuvered into this?

How did they know Daenerys would lock them up? How did they know Daenerys wouldn't turn a blind eye, or double her efforts to train them (which would really screw them over)?

[The Idiots Lantern]

So kill them. They're quite little at this stage still, they can fit on Daenerys' shoulder.

But what if you don't WANT to kill them? What if you're a powerful lord and you really, REALLY want to figure out how to take them for yourself?

Having a dragon or two or three at your command could make you unbelievably powerful. That might be worth all the danger of letting them live. Humans are very greedy after all.

I believe the Conspirators will see the dragons dead before they'll let Dany continue commanding them. But I also think they'll be extremely reluctant to admit they cannot tame them for themselves. And the peasantry cannot be trusted to do anything right. Tell them "don't kill the dragon, capture it" and some self-styled Dragon Slayer is going to get it into his head...

[danm_999]

But what if you don't WANT to kill them? What if you're a powerful lord and you really, REALLY want to figure out how to take them for yourself?

So let's say these people who convinced Hazzea's father to go to court, do so with the intention of capturing the dragons.

How was this supposed to work?

You've made Daenerys think that they're so wild that they need to be reigned in, and kept under some special sort of guard and supervision, and that means it's exponentially harder to steal them. In fact, causing Daenerys to have any sort of attitude other than her laissez faire 'let my dragons fly flee' attitude she has when she arrives in Meereen makes zero sense from the perspective of someone trying to steal them.

If this was the plan, then the people wanting to steal the dragons should have been silencing the shephard, since him testifying that the dragons are out there killing children is the last thing they'd want.

[Buckwheat]

You're right, but at the same time, the proof that he did is not conclusive either. Do we know for a fact that those were HUMAN bones that he showed Daenerys? Did someone independent confirm that he was who he said he was, and that he had a daughter? Or did Dany just take his word for it?

Maybe that's what her enemies were counting on: horrifying her so much she wouldn't try to verify the tale before chaining up her dragons....

All the people in the court hall recognised them as human bones. I would think they would know. Even if the killed child was not the daughter of the farmer, it was a human being killed by Drogon because the bones were burnt.

If somebody wanted the dragons away, they would have tried to kill them (probably not succeed, though) rather than try to make their mother lock them up.

[the Scorpion Knight]

The father of little Hazzea is obviously distraught, and the way he waits for an empty hall instead of making a spectacle just inforces the fact IMO that lil Hazzea is Dragon Fodder :D

and what if the sons of the harpy are just killed hazzea and burned her bones and left the bones there

All the people in the court hall recognised them as human bones. I would think they would know. Even if the killed child was not the daughter of the farmer, it was a human being killed by Drogon because the bones were burnt.

If somebody wanted the dragons away, they would have tried to kill them (probably not succeed, though) rather than try to make their mother lock them up.

maybe they wanted the dragons looked away so they can kill them in safety

Drogon is set completely loose for several months during ADWD. Yet there isn't a single extra human or child killed during this time. If he had a taste for human flesh he doesn't seem to have shown it and yet seems to eat voraciously. Since people lived alongside their animals its doubtful that he would not have been able to kill them if he had been inclined. There were dozens of reports before of Drogon stealing shephards sheep; again only one recorded incidence of a child being eaten. The dragon seems to have not hunted live human prey. Eating the dead woman in the pit was just because he was drawn to the smell and dead meat is any meat; even a trained dog will eat people if they're dead. I would have expected a lot more incidents before and especially after the event. Plus Dany doesn't mention human bones at his lair and Drogon is massive. I doubt that he could manage the fine manipulation of cracking tiny bones open to get marrow; especially when fresh meat was easy to procure as a dragon.

not to mention rhaegal and viserion Killed ONE person together after their escape and he died be cause he provoced them by not moving out

[Buckwheat]

maybe they wanted the dragons looked away so they can kill them in safety

And they had access to the dungeons? Or are you suggesting they infiltrated the brazen beasts? They had them locked, but they did not kill them all the time they were guarding them.

I am not convinced by that theory.

[The Idiots Lantern]

You've made Daenerys think that they're so wild that they need to be reigned in, and kept under some special sort of guard and supervision, and that means it's exponentially harder to steal them.

See, I think this is where you and I fail to connect. Because I absolutely do not see how locking the dragons in a place where they will reliably BE will make them harder to steal then if they were free to fly where they want, burn who they want, and kill whoever attacks them.

Human guards are not really "security." They can be killed. They can be bribed. They can be threatened. Seems to me they're definitely much easier to deal with then a free dragon.

Heck, even with Dany's cooperation, one out of three dragons got clean away and the other killed quite a few before they managed to chain him up. Without her, it'd have been much harder. Exactly how do you see this "easy steal" going down? Is there some magic fireproof net or something? How do you get that over a dragon who's flying freely half a mile over your head?

So how is a free dragon easier to steal?

[danm_999]

See, I think this is where you and I fail to connect. Because I absolutely do not see how locking the dragons in a place where they will reliably BE will make them harder to steal then if they were free to fly where they want, burn who they want, and kill whoever attacks them.

You don't?

Human guards are not really "security." They can be killed. They can be bribed. They can be threatened. Seems to me they're definitely much easier to deal with then a free dragon.

But they are a form of security. A free flying dragon has no external security.

Heck, even with Dany's cooperation, one out of three dragons got clean away and the other killed quite a few before they managed to chain him up. Without her, it'd have been much harder.

Drogon got away, but he'd caught wise as to what was happening with his brothers, and was particularly fierce. But remember how they catch Viserion; they leave a bunch of meat out, he eats it up, and then falls asleep. They slip a chain around his neck, and hey presto, they've caught themselves a dragon.

If the plan is to capture a dragon, why don't the Sons do that? It seems to work spectacularly well for the Brazen Beasts.

Exactly how do you see this "easy steal" going down? Is there some magic fireproof net or something? How do you get that over a dragon who's flying freely half a mile over your head?

So how is a free dragon easier to steal?

The way I described above.

[Magic 8 Ball]

I don't buy the argument that since nobody else came forward with bones, that means Drogon didn't do it.

In some cases he might have taken them back to the lair, and for all anyone else knew, the person just "went missing".

Also, for a peasant to have come all the way to Mereen, during a time of war and crisis - just think about that. In a hand to mouth world, dropping everything for weeks is a very expensive proposition. Traveling roads under any circumstances in those days was dicey, especially in times of instability. Drogon could have eaten somebody's mother in law, and they probably wouldn't have cared enough to do something that potentially self destructive - the travel, time away from work, the risks. If Drogon eats a hermit, or a barbarian, would they show up and petition Dany?

I think the fact that the guy showed up at all shows he had an extremely strong emotional bond with his daughter. It's really very touching.

Besides, Drogon probably came across more livestock in situations where they were clustered out in the open and lightly guarded. A child playing outside somewhere would have been a rarer target of opportunity or desperation.

[Guest]

The point is made that the shepherd waits until the hall is almost empty before he approaches Daenerys. If he was trying to slander her and her dragons for political reasons, he wouldn't do this.

The bones are cracked open and the marrow is sucked out.

You know I've been thinking about this for a while, and I really don't think that just because the Shepherd waited makes him more trustworthy. Yes, he didn't publicly call her out, but if he was working for someone who wanted to discreetly undermine Daenerys, someone who had at least an inkling that she is, in her heart, a compassionate person and wanted to play on it, that would be the way to do it.

And loads of animals crack bones and suck out marrow, so that also isn't really proof of anything, and if they'd cooked the bones in a regular fire I think they would have cracked too. If someone wanted to deprive Dany of her dragons, this is probably the best way to do it (assuming they have some knowledge of her compassionate nature).

And putting all that aside and assuming that the guy was telling the truth, that might not be the whole story. Perhaps someone goaded the dragon and he retaliated. Children can act stupid when no parents are watching them, perhaps the little girl tossed a rock at him, and Drogon being an animal and understanding only "pain" and "annoyance" toasted her. Yes, it's sad, yes he needs training, but that doesn't mean he's crazy with people-eating lust. Or heck perhaps again, without even the shepherd's knowledge someone offered the girl gold for her family or something to antagonize the dragon, knowing what it would set in motion.

I don't know, the whole thing stinks to me. There is more to the story here. I really think if he was a man-eater we'd see way way way more dead kids.

I don't think anyone would have done this with the intention of stealing the dragons, I think they might have done it to neutralize the power Dany had when she had them to threaten people with.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

Yep, because The Mother of Dragons figured she could skip the "mothering" part and her soulless, fire-breathing, lizard behemoths would just behave. Genius.

[Alistair's Pantaloons]

A dragon can do as he likes.

Unless you swing a whip and yell at him because that's just going too far!

[Guest]

Yep, because The Mother of Dragons figured she could skip the "mothering" part and her soulless, fire-breathing, lizard behemoths would just behave. Genius.

They aren't tame, but they do recognize Dany to some extent, or they would have eaten her. I still don't buy that he killed that kid, at least not without some extra circumstances at play. If he ate one child and found it easy I would think he would eat another, and another, and another, and finally doesn't mum look tasty? But instead he flies in and saves her in the middle of a plot for her life (admittedly that might have been entirely accidental on his part) and then allows her to share his food.

This is conjecture, but I think that dragons probably imprint the same way birds do. It would explain the way they treat Dany, and if that's the case I really don't see them eating a human without serious prompting. I mean a wolf might kill and eat another wolf if it's hungry enough, but it's not it's go to food source.

[KOM]

imo, it reads like legit human child. no conspiracy. In keeping with "Fire and Blood" dragons don't play nice. People will get hurt.

[Morienthar]

Drogon is not a warrior with a code of honour he's a predetor and that child was an easy target(small,Slow and waddling around) and he killed and ate her he also eats that young pit fighter after her fight.