What did Lady's death represent?

[Éadaoin]

I know that some say that Sansa ceased to be a Stark when Lady died, and that's what the direwolf's death represented - the loss of her "Starkness". However, this does not ring exactly true to the story to me. Currently, Sansa seems more of a Stark than ever. She now thinks fondly of Jon (iirc), misses her family, and even lies to Littlefinger.

So what did Lady's death mean? If anything, Sansa seems more of a Stark now than at the beginning of her story. Due to that, I am not buying the "Sansa is no longer a Stark because Lady is dead" theory. Unless, of course, someone provides me with evidence of Sansa losing her Stark-hood.

Lady's death seems loaded with symbolism, but I can't figure it out (besides the obvious "get her a dog" = the hound bit).

Edit: Could Lady's death represent the beginning of the end of Sansa's romantic thoughts about lords and ladies?

[LordReaper]

The begining of the end for Sansas innocence and Neds few remaining brain cells.

[Jslay427]

I think the death of lady plus the added abuse she suffers at the hands of the Lannisters, Joffery mostly, has changed her, and while she hasn't yet started playing the game, when she does she's going to emulate the person that taught her how to play. Now, to say she will cause LF like chaos is a bit of a stretch, but I think that the way she's going to handle herself is going to be more LF like than Stark in the future. I think she will get in touch with her hate, black widow style.

[King Aemon I]

It means nothing. Not everything in these books means or represents stuff..

[Melifeather]

What about her being touched by snow? At the Eyrie she builds a snow Winterfell. Her warging abilities have been stunted, but it doesn't mean that they're lost. The Eyrie has a lot of references to (symbolism of) the moon, and wolves love to sing/howl at the moon.

[The Smirking Fox]

Sansa was never a Stark. She was a Tully. Lady's death represented reparation for Sansa's lie.

[LOBROD]

Ladys death was the begining of Sansas' isolation from her family and the North. after her death, she withdrew from them more and more until she finally, ignorantly oblivious of the danger to the Starks in KL betrays her fathers plans to the starks biggest enemy, Cersai. after this she is truly alone.

Ladys death also represented the death of a protector that would have have had Joffery crapping his red velvet trousers.

(also allowed for another protector to emerge)

Yes, thank the 7 for Littlefinger :laugh:

[Éadaoin]

It means nothing. Not everything in these books means or represents stuff..

Yes, but the fact that Lady was killed seems significant to me, when the rest of the direwolves (as far as we know) remain alive. (edit: oops, forgot about grey wind.) And GRRM definitely has used a lot of symbolism in this series, so I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that Lady's death represented something.

What about her being touched by snow? At the Eyrie she builds a snow Winterfell. Her warging abilities have been stunted, but it doesn't mean that they're lost. The Eyrie has a lot of references to (symbolism of) the moon, and wolves love to sing/howl at the moon.

And isn't there a part where Sansa thinks that the wind howling reminds her of wolves? I thought that someone posted it on these boards once. That also makes me think that she is still a Stark.

Sansa was never a Stark. She was a Tully. Lady's death represented reparation for Sansa's lie.

Why do you think she is a Tully and not a Stark?

[Daenerys is my queen]

Hmm....maybe Lady's death represents the death of Sansa's innocence.

[The Great Walrus]

Hmm....maybe Lady's death represents the death of Sansa's innocence.

No, i'd say it represented the deconstrution of Sansa's whole naive view of the world, such as perfect knights, chivalry etc.

[TheZone]

The death of Lady, means that the part of her that was a Stark died, she will never be a Stark again, she will be Alayne.

[Éadaoin]

Ladys death was the begining of Sansas' isolation from her family and the North. after her death, she withdrew from them more and more until she finally, ignorantly oblivious of the danger to the Starks in KL betrays her fathers plans to the starks biggest enemy, Cersai. after this she is truly alone.

This is a good point. Sansa ultimately ends up all alone in KL. Perhaps Lady's death is also partly a foreshadowing of that.

[LOBROD]

Sansa was a lot more Tully than her siblings but there is no question that she was a Stark in spirit. She kept to the old gods. when faced with marriage to Tyrion after panicing she was reminded by a kettleback that she was a stark, and WERENt WOLVES SUPPOSED TO BE FIERCE. she then remembered went and did her duty.

Alyane is temporary manefestation, a construct created by littlefinger/

[Daenerys is my queen]

No, i'd say it represented the deconstrution of Sansa's whole naive view of the world, such as perfect knights, chivalry etc.

Well that too. I'd say they're related ideas. :)

[OberynBlackfyre]

Like many have said before, it was the slow decline of Sansa's innocence/belief that everything was going to be like it was in a song. The gallant prince that she lied for still turned on her, the beautiful queen commanded her companion and protector to die. It isn't so much symbolic at the time as it is foreshadowing Sansa's life. In so many ways she has found that the things she believed in that would take care of her, or benefit her was not so. From Joff, to the Hound, to the way she is treated in KL, and even as an "apprentice" to Cersei, she learns that people are not their titles, or not the songs written about them.

[Tommen]

Whatever you want it to represent herp. It serves a lot of functions for me. For one thing, it's an example of the sham that passes for justice in the game of thrones. It's a power play on Cersei's part; she teaches Ned Stark a lesson by forcing him into a position in which he has no choice but to bow to her authority. It re-opens the old rift between Ned and Robert ; Ned can't trust Robert to do what is right when what is right threatens a Lannister's will. Robert is beholden to Tywin Lannister and that's why he allows for Cersei's caprices. It should have taught Sansa that she can't trust the southern elite, but she is still just as blind as her father (Arya, on the other hand, is completely aware and can see through the artificialities of people pretty much from the beginning). I also felt that there was a deep connection between Lady's death and Bran's awakening seeing as they seem to happen simultaneously (correct me if I'm wrong, this could just be the show creeping up on my knowledge of the books). In that sense it reveals Bran's affinity with the greater narrative that is the song of ice and fire. You could go so far as to say that it's a representation of the "only death can pay for life" idea, what with the ritualistic aspect of her execution and how it (maybe) results in Bran's awakening. Also, Stark kids tend to have bad luck whenever they're separated from their direwolves (e.g. Robb, Jon) and we all know that things get very ugly very soon for little Sansa Stark.

[Éadaoin]

Alyane is temporary manefestation, a construct created by littlefinger/

I agree with this - that Sansa is still Sansa. I do not see her wholly becoming Alayne, though she plays the part well.

[Daniel Dario]

Hmm....maybe Lady's death represents the death of Sansa's innocence.

This.

It's basically Sansa's initiation. Loss of innocence is pretty fitting as Sansa has lived in a world of honorable, beautiful knights and songs. The death of Lady is the beginning of Sansa's initiation as she gradually becomes more aware of the reality of Westeros and life. Before she knew nothing of reality, living in the cozy and sheltered den that is Winterfell for a female Stark kid(even though she's more of a Tully).

[straits]

Yes, but the fact that Lady was killed seems significant to me, when the rest of the direwolves (as far as we know) remain alive. (edit: oops, forgot about grey wind.) And GRRM definitely has used a lot of symbolism in this series, so I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that Lady's death represented something.

And isn't there a part where Sansa thinks that the wind howling reminds her of wolves? I thought that someone posted it on these boards once. That also makes me think that she is still a Stark.

Why do you think she is a Tully and not a Stark?

I thought that she experienced the howling as something alien to her, making it clearer that she is not a Stark. It cannot mean the death of her innocence because she managed to lie to herself in order to retain her dreams for a little longer, until her father died in KL. You could of course argue that she is a Stark, but given that every other Stark we know exhibits more Stark/Northern sentiments than her in their PoVs, as does Robb from afar, her 'starkness' is not comparable to anyone else's in the family.

[Éadaoin]

I thought that she experienced the howling as something alien to her, making it clearer that she is not a Stark. It cannot mean the death of her innocence because she managed to lie to herself in order to retain her dreams for a little longer, until her father died in KL. You could of course argue that she is a Stark, but given that every other Stark we know exhibits more Stark/Northern sentiments than her in their PoVs, as does Robb from afar, her 'starkness' is not comparable to anyone else's in the family.

I had not thought of the howling passage like that. That is another interpretation.

I actually think Sansa's arc is interesting because to me she started off as the least (stereotypically, anyway) like a Stark out of Ned's children, yet is slowly becoming more and more attached to her family with time. She had to find herself.

I also think it's interesting how Sansa thinks of Jon fondly (in AFFC, I believe). It's worth nothing that his station in life rose, and hers fell. Yet to me, they both remain Starks - distant Starks, but Starks nonetheless. I think their arcs, when compared, are very interesting. But I'm getting off topic.