Divorce in the kingdoms

[Woman of War]

Why is the topic annullment or divorce always discussed in relation to Sansa? There are quite a few characters who might want to get out of an unwanted marriage, beginning with Jeyne Poole who certainly is in a far more miserable position.

And what if Sansa turns out to be the beast and whoever will be the beauty?

The biggest surprise within that trope.

[ElizaMartell]

And what if Sansa turns out to be the beast and whoever will be the beauty?

The biggest surprise within the trope.

Alayne is the beast, Sansa is the beauty.

There, trope issues all solved. ;)

[Lion of Judah]

You're right. Tyrion is an interesting morally grey character whose faults shouldn't be tied up with the 'nice guy needs to get pretty girl' trope.

I understand the whole 'Sansa learns not to like pretty people' plot point if it wasn't already clear by Storm of Swords she no longer was as prejudiced by being willing to marry Willas Tyrell. Heck her 'relationship' with Sandor and Dontos kind of voids the point Sansa needs to remain married to Tyrion because she's too 'shallow'.

This point I think is not made enough. Sansa's growth happens in such a subtle way that you almost miss it, she was very excited about the prospects of marrying Willas because he was presented to her as studious and kind.

[ElizaMartell]

This point I think is not made enough. Sansa's growth happens in such a subtle way that you almost miss it, she was very excited about the prospects of marrying Willas because he was presented to her as studious and kind.

Yeah and he wasn't a Lannister. Sansa isn't too keen on Lannisters at this moment in time, regardless of how you'd like to dress it up.

[Woman of War]

Alayne is the beast, Sansa is the beauty.

There, trope issues all solved. ;)

I love that, great approach! Multiple personality disorder, promising plot, huge suspense and lots of surprise hidden in it.

[1234567]

Alayne is the beast, Sansa is the beauty.

There, trope issues all solved. ;)

Truly wonderful. :thumbsup:

Seriously though the whole point of Beauty and the Beast is that in return for the Beasts kindness, he gets rewarded with love (or sex in the original version I think), whereas Sansa firmly rejects giving him any love or sex.

Saying that I do think there is a possibility of them ending up together because Tyrion is GRRM's favourite character. However I can only hope naught.

[Woman of War]

......whereas Sansa firmly rejects giving him any love or sex.

Wait and see, there are two more books to come! ;)

Actually I do not know more than you, which is precisely nothing. Even twenty rereads or the deepest debates won't make us Mr. Martin mind readers - fortunately :D

Good night and sweet dreams

[Lion of Judah]

Yeah and he wasn't a Lannister. Sansa isn't too keen on Lannisters at this moment in time, regardless of how you'd like to dress it up.

At this point I think if you offered Sansa the option of Jamie or Willas, she would pick Willas without a doubt.

[Ludd]

A knowledge of English history will tell us much about the practices of marriage anulments. It will also I think be an argument for making ALL of the Starks technically illegitimate.

Henry VIII of England sought an annulment of his 18 year marriage because he desperately needed a male heir. Now often the church bowed to nobles and granted such wishes but this was refused because the Queen was the daughter of the powerful king of spain and the sole child - Mary would inherit the kingdom.

Now the GROUNDS that Henry the VIII used for the divorce request were pretty spurious - his wife Catherine had originally been betrothed to his brother Arthur who had died just before the wedding. He Henry has stepped up and married Catherine in his brother's place (Catelyn anyone).

Anyway the church refused the request. Henry broke from the church and the Aglican Church was born. He divorced his wife. His daughter mary was declared illegitimate. Henry married his lover Anne Bolyn who bore him Elizabeth. But the Bolyns were plotting (definitely a LOT of Tyrell in the Bolyns - indeed I think there was a brother accused of being rather like Sir Loras and an older girl Margaret who had been Henry VIIIs lover and bore him a bastard son - but as she was married the boy was never acknowledged). The Bolyns lost their heads and Henry married a third time and had a sickly son - Edward VI.

After Henry died the son by marriage three became king but he died young. The Catholic party - supported by Spain revoked the divorce and marriage and placed Mary on the throne and declared the other two chiuldren illegitimate.

Mary died childless and the throne finally passed to Elizabeth

[Kittykatknits]

Saying that I do think there is a possibility of them ending up together because Tyrion is GRRM's favourite character. However I can only hope naught.

This is the only argument I can think of for the match. He is Martin's favorite character and he might feel Tyrion deserves it, regardless of what is realistic or fair for Sansa.

At this point I think if you offered Sansa the option of Jamie or Willas, she would pick Willas without a doubt.

I completely agree with you here, she'd pick Willas in a heart beat. I've said this before when it comes to the marriage of Sansa and Tyrion. She'd feel the exact same way about Jaime, a character who is regularly acknowledged as being beautiful. He's still a Lannister, still a member of the family that destroyed her own, and still one of those using her for her claim. I think she'd give him the same cold courtesty she gave Tyrion.