[Book Spoilers] Bran's Upcoming Arc : exploring the history of Westeros ?

[Arkash]

Well... let's face it : there is not enough Bran material from Storm and onward for full Game of Thrones seasons.

So, dont you think the writers took this oportunity to, and moroever with the Reeds now in the Game, explore the mythology of Westeros : either it be its ancient history (Blackfyre Rebellion, Aegon's conquest, First Dance of Dragons, Great Bastards, The Long Night and the Night King, the First Men, the Andals...) and its recent history and characters (Robert's Rebellion, Knight of the Laughing Tree, Harrenhal Tourney, Rhaegar and Lyanna, Brandon and Rickard Stark...).

For me, it would be the perfect occasion to throw all of those in the show. That will give Bran some more material to do and will finally give some lore to the average viewer who only watches the show.

[Arkash]

And it will definitly please us, Book-Walkers to finally get all of this in the show.

[Lord Varys]

They are perfectly positioned to give us the full tale about the Tourney of Harrenhal and the Knight of the Laughing Tree. Which is also in the books. But since that story in itself won't make much (or any) sense to the casual viewer, they will have to explore the Rebellion and the Targaryen dynasty a little more. Which they will do in season 3. But not only in Bran scenes. They started to explore the history in Bran scenes back in season 1, when Bran was the one who mentioned Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna in the crypts. And they continued this approach in season 2 with the talk about the giants, dragons, and Children of the Forest.

But the history of Westeros as a whole will not be explored in the series at all. The Dance of Dragons, the Doom of Valyria, or Aegon's Conquest don't matter. Perhaps there will be some stuff on the Blackfyre rebellions in the show, but not before season 4 or 5. And only, I think, if Aegon will indeed turn out to be of Blackfyre heritage, and the show runners will stick to that. If Aegon will indeed be Aegon VI Targaryen, the Golden Company could just be a bunch of very good sellswords whose ancestors were exiled from Westeros.

But what they really should do is to introduce the audience to the fact that the Targaryen dynasty was always looking for the savior guy Melisandre thinks she has found in Stannis. And they should also indicate that Daenerys may be that character. But I guess they will come to that during Stannis's arc in season 3.

[protar]

I agree that it's only really Robert's Rebellion, and the AA myth (or the Warrior of Light myth in the show) that definitely needs expanding upon. However it may turn out that the distant past of Westeros and/or Valyria may be important to the series' conclusion, so we may need to get some of that stuff in as well.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Yes, sure. But under the rules of television:

1) It needs a purpose in the storyarc present, preferably for the season at hand. (That is f.e. why we had less prophecies, because all that Rhaegar stuff only becomes important a few seasons down the line or not at all)

2) It needs to be in character. (So the situation where these things are discussed must arise naturally)

3) It needs to be visually compelling and not a overload of historical information. (So a campfire talk on Dornish inheritance laws is bad while Meera and Jojen playing out the Knight of the Laughing Tree story could work better - but here again, the KotLT only becomes important later on)

So that said, I can't see them stuffing Bran's story up with information dumps, though he has been that to a certain degree (i.e. School with Maester Luwin in season 1). There's enough story for two solid season and after that they might want to fade him into the background or let him speak through trees.

But I can't see them starting a scene with Bran sitting on a tree stump, closing his eyes and then racing through the weirnet to a flashback that is important for us. That'd be very cheesy, no?

[protar]

Yes, sure. But under the rules of television:

1) It needs a purpose in the storyarc present, preferably for the season at hand. (That is f.e. why we had less prophecies, because all that Rhaegar stuff only becomes important a few seasons down the line or not at all)

2) It needs to be in character. (So the situation where these things are discussed must arise naturally)

3) It needs to be visually compelling and not a overload of historical information. (So a campfire talk on Dornish inheritance laws is bad while Meera and Jojen playing out the Knight of the Laughing Tree story could work better - but here again, the KotLT only becomes important later on)

So that said, I can't see them stuffing Bran's story up with information dumps, though he has been that to a certain degree (i.e. School with Maester Luwin in season 1). There's enough story for two solid season and after that they might want to fade him into the background or let him speak through trees.

But I can't see them starting a scene with Bran sitting on a tree stump, closing his eyes and then racing through the weirnet to a flashback that is important for us. That'd be very cheesy, no?

It would be cheesy, and it's something I hope is avoided in the books as well. But if information on say the age of heroes is required, then Bran is the best way to demonstrate it (in both mediums.).

[Lord Varys]

The KoLT would be important for the story as it presents itself (or could be made that way) since they'll have to introduce us to the Reeds as a house. We have to get to know these people, and how could they do that better than by introducing us to the friendship between their father and Bran's father?

The Lyanna/Rhaegar stuff will be important for Jon's heritage (and they should start to give us clues if R+L is true). But Rhaegar will become very important in the next two seasons, not just because of Aegon, but because of the whole Martell revenge stuff. And for Aegon we have to get the names of those 'Targaryen children' Lord Tywin had killed, in fact, we have to get a view on all of Dany's dead kin (Aerys, Rhaella, Rhaegar, Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon). That's not so much, and season 3 should give us a view on both Aerys and Rhaegar through Jaime, Tywin, Olenna, Pycelle, and perhaps even other characters as well. It won't do to postpone that indefinitely.

As to the prophecies: Well, the way they could have used them in HotU included the possibility to make them vague. And they should know by now if they want to keep Aegon in the story, or if they want to kill Stannis prematurely, so most of the visions of the HotU could have worked. Especially all the backtracking stuff (i.e. give us the scenes with Aerys and Rossart, and Rhaegar, Elia, and Aegon).

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

I don't want to derail the thread, but the prophecies that got cut from the HotU got cut because they had no relevance to the seasonal story arc itself. They CAN reintroduce them (via Quaithe, Barristan Selmy remembering or a totally new House of the Undying in Mereen) if they need to. When they are relevant to the story.

You did convince me on the Knight of the Laughing Tree. It's good to show Stark allies and all. Everything relating to Martell though is better left to season 4 when it will be relevant and Jon's heritage will not start to matter until season 6 at earliest. But how would these discussions come up naturally for Olenna, Tywin et al.? There's of course ways to do that, but it's important that it fits into the show, that's all I'm saying.

(and yes, Bran is the best way to bring across such old information, even if it's silly, but what can you do ;))

[Lord Varys]

Tywin, Pycelle and Olenna most likely will got more than their scenes in the book. Since Pycelle and Tywin share a history (and since Olenna is also quite old) they could use those characters to explore the recent past. Tywin and Aerys share a story. Pycelle and Tywin do, too. In fact, they still have to reveal that Pycelle betrayed Aerys and convinced him to open the gates of KL to Tywin. My guess is that these things will be addressed next season.

The details about Elia and her children could wait until season 4, but we should finally get an impression who this Rhaegar guy was, and how and why the Rebellion started. We don't even know yet how the Lannisters ended up joining Robert and Ned. Since they split ASoS, season 3 would be the ideal time to address much of this stuff. We need to know how calculating Lord Tywin can be to prepare the way for the Red Wedding. How could that be done better than by explaining to us when and how Tywin decided to betray his king? And the whole Joffrey-Tywin-relationship will also be the best background to explore Tywin's and Aerys's past.

As to how things fit into the show: I found all those tidbits from ADwD extremely contrived and boring in season 2 (i.e. Volantis, stuff about the tattoos to protect sailors from the Doom, Barrowton and Lady Dustin, M'lord and my lord etc.). In my opinion, they have not always done their best to make all conversations make sense within the scope of an episode or a season. In fact, they should have used stuff from ACoK, not so much stuff from ADwD for season 2.

[ghost23]

To be honest, I'd much rather they find some way of showing these events rather than just have characters talking about it. Sure its fine for GRRM to have characters talk and think about all the histories because he is writing a novel. But this is a visual medium and they should take advantage of this. I think non-book viewers are far more likely to understand and appreciate the histories if it actually somehow plays out on screen rather than have Bran, Meera and Jojen talk about it.

[FlightEcho]

He is able to tap into higher dimensions and planes of existances, thats pretty cool. I don't see why people find it borin.

[Lord Varys]

The Knight of the Laughing Tree could have been a fine flashback story with voice over and stuff. But since Howland Reed and various other characters have not been cast, this is apparently not happening. In fact, this shows very much likes to have its characters talk. Not only about the past but present events as well. But I guess they will show us the past on screen as soon as Bran can travel back in time...

[Arkash]

Well, at least, let us hope for the tale of the KOTLT and some data on Rhaegar from Barristan in Dany's arc.

[Wun Wun's Wife]

Do we know for sure that no one has been cast for flashback? It could be a closely guarded secret that just hasn't been published on IMDB for spoiler reasons..

[Lord Varys]

We don't know for sure, at least not to my knowledge. But - and that's the important thing - they had already cast Aerys II for flashback scenes in season 1 which they actually shot (we see Brandon and Aerys in a trailer for season 1) but decided not to use. So my guess is that they are quite comfortable with this 'talking about the past' thing. Showing it would mean they have to cast yet more people, and might actually confuse the audience since most of the flashback characters are already dead or died during the show (Robert, Ned).

[The Dragon has three heads]

To be honest, I'd much rather they find some way of showing these events rather than just have characters talking about it. Sure its fine for GRRM to have characters talk and think about all the histories because he is writing a novel. But this is a visual medium and they should take advantage of this. I think non-book viewers are far more likely to understand and appreciate the histories if it actually somehow plays out on screen rather than have Bran, Meera and Jojen talk about it.

It's called a budget.

They have one, a big one, but not enough to show even MORE characters in flashback with MORE cast. Won't happen.

The scenes between Arya/Tywin in season 2 are where these small bits of information will be revealed.

The conquest itself had real need to be in season 2, but, it was part of the history of Harrenhall, so it was included.

So I believe as bran moves closer to the wall and the nights watch, We'll hear about the rat cook, nights king and last hero stuff, as well as the KOTLT.

In KL we'll get information about the sack, the rebellion, perhaps earlier conquest stuff, maybe some things about the maesters as well.

And in essos, information about the Doom and Valyria/Ghis etc

[Lannister Hamster]

I think the Knight of the Laughing Tree has to be part of the season - it's one of Bran's highlights of ASOS and explains the deep bonds between the Reeds and the Starks. It will probably be fairly early on in the season too.

I agree with the previous poster that the Night's King and Rat Cook's story will be brought up - Night's King in Bran's story, but the Rat's Cook can potentially go to Catelyn as she explains and reinforces to Robb the power of the guestrite.

Barristan will tell Dany about Rhaegar when it becomes necessary.

[freetickles]

I agree with the previous poster that the Night's King and Rat Cook's story will be brought up - Night's King in Bran's story, but the Rat's Cook can potentially go to Catelyn as she explains and reinforces to Robb the power of the guestrite.

I cook see the Rat Cook story coming up later, prior to (or around the time of) Manderly serving pie to the Boltons and Freys at Winterfell. But, they do need to do something to make a big deal of guest right this season prior to the RW so I could see Cat telling Robb the story as well.

[Nezzer]

I'd love to see those stories in the show, but I don't know how they could show them without making them boring. Long stories being told on TV is usually quite boring.