New Game of Thrones Video Log

[Le Cygne]

Why not just keep it simple and bring in someone new rather than find a new purpose for Ros and Talisa.

[Col. Forbin]

Only one short line from Ciaran Hinds and I'm even more sold on him than I was previously. Fantastic casting. Particularly looking forward to Jon's journey this season!

Also, what a great shot of the three political musketeers of King's Landing!

I'm really interested to see him as Mance too but after watching some Rome reruns, the guy that played Marc Antony would have been a great choice imo. I haven't seen him in anything else but they could probably find someting good for him in GoT.

[The Flaying Man]

I'm really interested to see him as Mance too but after watching some Rome reruns, the guy that played Marc Antony would have been a great choice imo. I haven't seen him in anything else but they could probably find someting good for him in GoT.

James Purefoy! A lot of people have been recommending him for either Oberyn or Euron...while he definitely has the arrogance of the Red Viper and the cold, charming coolness of Euron, and could pull both of them off very well, personally I could see him as more of a northern character too! He has also said that he loves Game of Thrones, so that's positive. Between Oberyn and Euron though, I'd pick him for Euron, I've always imagined the Dornish ethnicity to be slightly darker and more Mediterranean.

[Jolene Brown]

I think it's important that Ramsay's fake bride be a Stark & I can't see Talisa being compliant enough to go along with the fake wedding. They need someone who can be intimidated into doing what she is told. They haven't played Talisa that way AT ALL. This storyline is well in the future, they will lay the groundwork when they need to - of course we can't see it yet; there's no need for it with that storyling 3-4 years away.

[King Tommen]

I think it's important that Ramsay's fake bride be a Stark & I can't see Talisa being compliant enough to go along with the fake wedding. They need someone who can be intimidated into doing what she is told. They haven't played Talisa that way AT ALL. This storyline is well in the future, they will lay the groundwork when they need to - of course we can't see it yet; there's no need for it with that storyling 3-4 years away.

OK, first of all, as has been mentioned on multiple occasions, if it's Talisa, it's not "fake". She wouldn't be posing as a Stark or anyone else, she would be her with no subterfuge necessary. Because at that time, all of the Stark kids are either dead or missing/presumed dead, she would have a claim to Winterfell (however tenuous that would be). After marrying Robb, she is as much a Stark as Catelyn was. And arguing the intricacies of lordship claims in Westeros borders on obtuse seeing as it's been well established that whoever has the power, bends the rules to suit their whims. That's how Robert was able to claim the Iron Throne, why Cersei was allowed to rip up Robert's final decree so Joffrey could rule etc. If the Boltons and the Lannisters say this is what will give Ramsay Winterfell, then no one can really say different, can they?

In terms of why she would go along with this given the personality traits she has exhibited so far? There's a little event set to occur this season that will probably change her character fundamentally. Given that she's going to be at the RW, if she ends up surviving and being taken prisoner, she's going to most likely have to witness her husband, his mother and all of his men getting butchered in front of her. There is no way that she will not feel partly or wholly responsible for the RW because of her actions and that realization, along with a prolonged imprisonment with someone as cruel as Roose would break even the sassiest and independent of people psychologically. By the time she gets handed off to Ramsay, I doubt that she'd have a whole lot of fight left in her, I would imagine that she would probably be in a semi-catatonic state close to what Jeyne Poole was described as being in. It's a very dramatic thing to play to show this once fiercely independent woman stripped of her will by her guilt and imprisonment and reduced to the shell that we would see at the time of being handed over to Ramsay. It provokes a lot of sympathy from the audience and at the same time, it makes Theon's redemption arc stronger as he will have the ability to help save the widow and love of his "brother" Robb whose betrayal started Theon on the wrong path in the first place.

Or, yeah, we could introduce some random girl we've never heard of before and who we are supposed to care about immediately to pose as "Arya" and try and extend the audience's suspension of disbelief to ridiculous levels all so we can be true to the book.

[Pinkie Baelish]

It could definitely be a possibility especially since Theon and Ros have history from season 1, the whole "escape from Winterfell" thing in season 5/6 would be even more powerful!

Also having Ros instead of Jeyne also means that they won't be violating any child porn laws. I'm expecting most of Jeyne's torture to be left out or excluded considering that the character is about 15, but since Ros is of age, they might be able to show some of it.

And I'm expecting a lot of book purists would be satisfied with Ros jumping off the castle walls and breaking her ribs :laugh:

[King Tommen]

Using Ros is ridiculous since she has a good 10-15 years on both Stark kids and looks nothing like either of them. The whole point is to not even try and attempt to go down the road of using a "fake" Stark since it will appear nonsensical to the audience. Martin could get away with it (barely, as that storyline falls apart if you think about it for more than 2 minutes) because on the page, you don't actually picture the disparity in looks between Arya and Jeyne Poole. On the show, having anyone try to pose as either Arya or Sansa is asking the audience to suspend their disbelief to ridiculous lengths. Not one single person in all of the North has any idea what the girls of the most prominent family of the their ruling lord looks like?

Scrap it, it's not worth it. Make the marriage with Ramsay be to a real girl who isn't posing as anyone. It will save so much grief.

[Crown]

I'm really interested to see him as Mance too but after watching some Rome reruns, the guy that played Marc Antony would have been a great choice imo. I haven't seen him in anything else but they could probably find someting good for him in GoT.

Purefoy is staring in The Following, a new show on FOX starting on Monday. I doubt we'll see him in GoT anytime soon, if we see him at all.

[Le Cygne]

Talisa instead of fake Arya, you lose a lot of the drama. To Jon, Robb's wife he never met isn't the same as Arya. Jon and Arya are very close.

Spoiler tagging...

[Jolene Brown]

My god, can anyone ever disagree with anything without this rampage of "book purist" insults? I think it's becoming a form of hate speech.

I just don't think the Talisa thing is a good idea, because it doesn't make sense to me in dramatic terms. Will spoiler, to be on the safe side:

It's not about fake or not fake, it's about the resonance of Ramsay marrying a supposed Stark child, who the people in the North and most especially Jon, really care about vs. a woman from Volantis who they don't know, who they might see as having in some ways "gotten Robb killed," and who Jon has never met.

Even more importantly, THEON has never met her. The fact that Theon and Jeyne know each other is really important to the way that story develops. He obviously feels a degree of personal responsibility - this is someone he knew as a child, and it's clear that he feels guilty about what is happening to her and wants to help - that is part of what allows him to overcome his fear of Ramsay. He didn't do it out of fear of Mance/Abel or the spearwomen - he could have just revealed who they were and gotten them killed; he didn't need to be afraid of them. To me, the mere fact of Talisa as Robb's widow is not remotely the same as someone who tells Theon "I remember watching you swordfight with Robb (or whatever it was, can't remember exactly) - you were so handsome." Her presence and her memories of him as he was is part of what makes him want to try to be closer to that person again, braver. There is none of that with Talisa.

Also, in some ways, because they aren't saddled with a pre-existing Jeyne Poole, it makes it easier for them to make it believable. They can cast specifically for someone who actually does look enough like Maisie Williams to make the ploy make sense.

[YTDN]

I agree with the people saying Talisa will not take the Fake Arya role. I'm 90% sure that Talisa is going to get murdered at the RW (NOT reveal that she is a traitor) during the initial massacre, before Robb emerges from under the table and he and Cat get killed. Fake Arya will be go as it did in the books, since it's the only thing hat makes narrative sense considering claims on the north and Jon's actions (since he would only act so recklessly for Arya.)

[protar]

My god, can anyone ever disagree with anything without this rampage of "book purist" insults? I think it's becoming a form of hate speech.

I just don't think the Talisa thing is a good idea, because it doesn't make sense to me in dramatic terms. Will spoiler, to be on the safe side:

It's not about fake or not fake, it's about the resonance of Ramsay marrying a supposed Stark child, who the people in the North and most especially Jon, really care about vs. a woman from Volantis who they don't know, who they might see as having in some ways "gotten Robb killed," and who Jon has never met.

Even more importantly, THEON has never met her. The fact that Theon and Jeyne know each other is really important to the way that story develops. He obviously feels a degree of personal responsibility - this is someone he knew as a child, and it's clear that he feels guilty about what is happening to her and wants to help - that is part of what allows him to overcome his fear of Ramsay. He didn't do it out of fear of Mance/Abel or the spearwomen - he could have just revealed who they were and gotten them killed; he didn't need to be afraid of them. To me, the mere fact of Talisa as Robb's widow is not remotely the same as someone who tells Theon "I remember watching you swordfight with Robb (or whatever it was, can't remember exactly) - you were so handsome." Her presence and her memories of him as he was is part of what makes him want to try to be closer to that person again, braver. There is none of that with Talisa.

Also, in some ways, because they aren't saddled with a pre-existing Jeyne Poole, it makes it easier for them to make it believable. They can cast specifically for someone who actually does look enough like Maisie Williams to make the ploy make sense.

I agree that Jon's side of things would be a bit problematic, however I don't think that this completely eliminates the possibility of the idea. For him, and the Northmen it's still his home being defiled and occupied.

Jeyne does not exist in the show. That connection with Theon therefore cannot exist. Introducing a random northern girl out of nowhere and telling the audience that they have a connection isn't going to cut it.

And if they use someone Maisie's age as a Fake Arya, that person will not be able to engage in any of the explicit content due to child pornography laws.

I'm as much a purist as anyone, but if I were watching the show without having read the books, and this new character was introduced after 5 years which the other characters were supposed to gave this history and connection with, I would be incredibly disappointed and call bullshit. It would be a complete asspull from the show watchers perspective.

[Jolene Brown]

A lot depends on how the new character is introduced and how good the actress is. This isn't a case where the Starks have been sitting in Winterfell for five years and having wacky adventures with their servants and vassals and one day, some girl walks in and says, "Remember me?" They've been separated, their men killed, their home destroyed, with their servants and friends scattered all over the continent. In THAT type of situation, it's a lot easier to "re-introduce" a character that never existed on the show. At some point, Tywin and Littlefinger can talk about how they need a "Stark" and Littlefinger can say "We have one." We'll be confused, wondering what he's talking about? Then he can bring in their Jeyne character, we'll see Tywin and Littlefinger working out the ploy, then later, whatever backstory we need can be established through some threatening conversation between Jeyne and Littlefinger. I really don't think it would be even remotely difficult. Shows introduce new characters who are connected to the old ones ALL the time, and whether it works or not is all about the execution, not about the inherent difficulty/lack of difficulty of the concept itself.

[protar]

A lot depends on how the new character is introduced and how good the actress is. This isn't a case where the Starks have been sitting in Winterfell for five years and having wacky adventures with their servants and vassals and one day, some girl walks in and says, "Remember me?" They've been separated, their men killed, their home destroyed, with their servants and friends scattered all over the continent. In THAT type of situation, it's a lot easier to "re-introduce" a character that never existed on the show. At some point, Tywin and Littlefinger can talk about how they need a "Stark" and Littlefinger can say "We have one." We'll be confused, wondering what he's talking about? Then he can bring in their Jeyne character, we'll see Tywin and Littlefinger working out the ploy, then later, whatever backstory we need can be established through some threatening conversation between Jeyne and Littlefinger. I really don't think it would be even remotely difficult. Shows introduce new characters who are connected to the old ones ALL the time, and whether it works or not is all about the execution, not about the inherent difficulty/lack of difficulty of the concept itself.

But that would take quite a bit of set up that would eat up time in S4. It would be possible sure, but at this point Talisa taking up that role would be easier. D+D have shown that they're not going to go out of there way to stick to the books,if a quicker solution presents itself.

[protar]

I'm also a bit worried about this notion of things being "more personal." To me that sounds like a nice way of saying that there isn't going to be much action. In and of itself that isn't a problem, GOT has always been about the characters, but S2 has already got a lot of complaints from Unsullied for being slow paced and not actiony enough. I know I'll enjoy it, but I am concerned about how the non-readers will react to a whole other season of build up.

[StannisEndGame]

If it kicks off with the battle against the White Walkers as the fist which it seems to do i don't think anyone will complain.

[protar]

If it kicks off with the battle against the White Walkers as the fist which it seems to do i don't think anyone will complain.

True. I mean logically there are quite a few dramatic events there, so I found it a bit weird that they were focusing more on the character interactions, which are a staple of the show anyway and are to be expected. Saying "there's a lot more action throughout this season" would look much more promising to the mainstream audience.

[Le Cygne]

You can suggest a lot without showing it. I think the British restrictions for under 18 character/actor are in showing sex on screen. There can be kissing with an under 18 character/actor on screen, we've seen that. There was a quote where Martin said they could have kept the ages as they were, with 13 year old Dany marrying Drogo, but if they showed the sex, they had to make Dany 18.

"One of the reasons I wanted to do this with HBO is that I wanted to keep the sex," he admitted. "We had some real problems because Dany is only 13 in the books, and that’s based on medieval history. They didn’t have this concept of adolescence or the teenage years. You were a child or you were an adult. And the onset of sexual maturity meant you were an adult. So I reflected that in the books."

But that's a problem for a TV show.

"So we ended up with a 22-year-old portraying an 18-year-old, instead of an 18-year-old portraying a 13-year-old," George said. "If we decided to lose the sex we could have kept the original ages. And once you change the age of one character you have to change the ages of all the characters, and change the date of the war [that dethroned the Mad King]."

http://www.okmagazin...mes-thrones-hbo

[protar]

True, but I feel implication can only go so far. And having an underage character in that sort of situation might putt off the viewers more, laws or no.

[Le Cygne]

One, we've already seen that sort of thing (think back to a scene last season). Two, I don't think people watching this show are expecting Westeros to be Disney World.

Personally, I'd rather have the worst of Ramsay's tortures off screen, I think it would be more effective. What you imagine is always worse than what you see.