Rolex Baratheon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Guys for Heaven's sake, Renly had declared the intention to kill Stannis. Why do you ignore that and make posts dripping with sarcasm based on how only Stannis was doing the killing here. Renly fully intended to kill him with the resources he had. Its just that Stannis killed Renly before Renly could kill him with the resources that he himself had (i.e Melisandre).What other option had Stannis other than killing Renly? It was his life or Renly's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laszlo Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Again, if that's his first thought, he's sick.More like racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 How else should he kill him? Renly had til dawn, didn't surrender, died at dawn, it's not like he wasn't warned.Yes, Renly was warned, but I wouldn't kill my own brother with dark magic. That's just my opinion, I really don't know how I would do it if I was Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Again, if that's his first thought, he's sick.Why is he? It was a normal custom for Valyrians(or Targs at least) and the wildlings already have this thing about men 'stealing' women.It doesn't help that nobody says she was raped, just that she had the child with her father. He likes people to be upfront with him, not skirt around such issues, he'd expect someone to tell him that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes, Renly was warned, but I wouldn't kill my own brother with dark magic. That's just my opinion, I really don't know how I would do it if I was Stannis.Yes you would kill him in a MASSIVELY unfair contest of swords arrows spears and axes, that makes it better doesn't it?Such a simple situation made into a complex argument because people keep forgetting that Renly was going to kill Stannis by unfair means, Stannis simply beat him to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes, Renly was warned, but I wouldn't kill my own brother with dark magic. That's just my opinion, I really don't know how I would do it if I was Stannis.Well, would your own brother try and steal all that was yours and threaten to beat you up with his bigger gang of friends if you don't let him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techelles Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Not surprisingly, this thread is growing very quickly.I'm sure Stannis would be one of the first people to admit that he's not terribly honorable (he'd also say that that's why he's still alive). I agree. He himself says that he'll think about Renly and his peach until the day he dies. Stannis knows what he has done, and he knows the price of it. Sometimes the price is honor. Sometimes you just have to grind your teeth and press on.(I'll not even get into how silly it is for anyone to claim they are the "rightful heir" to the Iron Throne after usurping it only a few years prior.)Haha, glad to see someone say this. I think all the arguments about legality and rightful claims are kinda silly, because as we all know, what is "right" varies from person to person, and what is "legal" varies from king to king. Sure, there are written laws and accepted customs, but when they conflict with one's own interests, most people throw them out the window pretty fast. I'd say Stannis has as good a claim as anyone; so does Dany. But they still need armies.Why didn't he leave Davos with a message? Or send a raven to Winterfell once he learnt that the king and court were going there?Well, it probably would have been a death sentence for Davos. And whether he sent word through Davos or a raven, it still would have come from Stannis, and he's always saying that Robert never would have believed the truth about the children if it came from him.No one knew he doubted Cersei's children paternity,so he definately showed he had something to hide,something he feared.I think it's safe to assume that LF knew. It's just that killing Stannis didn't suit his purpose, which was to start a war between Stark and Lannister. Varys knew, too, probably. Maybe Cersei. But if you're Stannis, and the only man you've confided in has just been killed, you're probably going to assume that the killers know about you, too.And yes, his flight from KL did not go unnoticed. Ned certainly thought it was odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes you would kill him in a MASSIVELY unfair contest of swords arrows spears and axes, that makes it better doesn't it?Such a simple situation made into a complex argument because people keep forgetting that Renly was going to kill Stannis by unfair means, Stannis simply beat him to it.I just wanted to say this is my reply to any more posts saying Stannis was wrong. i should put it as a signature or a huge-ass avatar, if that were possible XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Again, if that's his first thought, he's sick.It's a sick thought, yes, but I don't think it's evidence that Stannis is "sick." He's a man of his times from a society that holds any number of awful views about women, sex, and gender roles in society. I don't think we're going to get a monarch who is particularly enlightened on those fronts. And while those statements of his bother me, it's something that makes him uncharitable, but not dishonorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes you would kill him in a MASSIVELY unfair contest of swords arrows spears and axes, that makes it better doesn't it?Such a simple situation made into a complex argument because people keep forgetting that Renly was going to kill Stannis by unfair means, Stannis simply beat him to it.Well, would your own brother try and steal all that was yours and threaten to beat you up with his bigger gang of friends if you don't let him?I know that with what I'm going to say I will have many complaints, but I doubt Renly would have killed him if Stannis was captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I know that with what I'm going to say I will have many complaints, but I doubt Renly would have killed him if Stannis was captured.This point is as weak as Renly's claim to the crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flidderman Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yes, Renly was warned, but I wouldn't kill my own brother with dark magic. That's just my opinion, I really don't know how I would do it if I was Stannis.I know that with what I'm going to say I will have many complaints, but I doubt Renly would have killed him if Stannis was captured.You sound like you wouldn't last a minute in Westeros, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Well, it probably would have been a death sentence for Davos. And whether he sent word through Davos or a raven, it still would have come from Stannis, and he's always saying that Robert never would have believed the truth about the children if it came from him.He could have written to Winterfell and enlisted Ned's help-if he was actually interested in saving Robert that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flidderman Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 if he was actually interested in saving Robert that is.Why would he be? He didn't love Robert, nor did he owe him anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Didn't Stannis say he didn't go to Robert because Robert wouldn't listen to him? Who's to say Robert wouldn't think it idiocy on Stannis part and ignore it and go whoring? Or get mad and smash Stannis' head in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 He could have written to Winterfell and enlisted Ned's help-if he was actually interested in saving Robert that is.Because Ned & Stannis are such good friends...Stannis knew Ned & Robert have fallen out before and haven't seen each other in a while, Robert has also gone downhill a lot.In fact, Ned wouldn't have even went with Robert if not for Catelyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Didn't Stannis say he didn't go to Robert because Robert wouldn't listen to him? Who's to say Robert wouldn't think it idiocy on Stannis part and ignore it and go whoring? Or get mad and smash Stannis' head in?Why would he be? He didn't love Robert, nor did he owe him anything.Well I don't know whether to agree with this or not. He was a member of the council and hence under Robert's Kingship. But then again the incest revelation had no concrete sort of proof so... I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Why would he be? He didn't love Robert, nor did he owe him anything.Because he's his elder brother and king-the same reason in fact that y'all put forward for Renly having to bend the knee to him.Didn't Stannis say he didn't go to Robert because Robert wouldn't listen to him? Who's to say Robert wouldn't think it idiocy on Stannis part and ignore it and go whoring? Or get mad and smash Stannis' head in?Why not write to Ned? There are no Lannisters at Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Because Ned & Stannis are such good friends...Stannis knew Ned & Robert have fallen out before and haven't seen each other in a while, Robert has also gone downhill a lot.I think Stannis would've been wise to reach out to Eddard and try to forge a closer relationship with him. Stannis is a pragmatic guy and this is a big missed opportunity. However, this failure doesn't make him dishonorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techelles Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 He could have written to Winterfell and enlisted Ned's help-if he was actually interested in saving Robert that is.Ah, I see. I wish he had. Someone else said that Stannis and Ned were not really friends; that might be part of it. Hard to say.There are a number of things Stannis didn't do that I wish he had, and some he did that I wish he hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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