Robert’s Rebellion: Justified or there was another way?

[Naathi Prince]

So Rhaegar did something stupid, and Brandon did something stupid, and Mad King Aerys did something stupid, and Jon did something stupid, and Ned did something stupid and Robert did something stupid. Yeey, no one caused the war, because they merely were being stupid! Glad we worked that out.

Wonderfully put

[The Rise of Dorne]

If they flee the land, they're no longer liege lords and can't finance an assassination. If they don't flee, they have to fight in order to maintain their status long enough for an assassin to kill Aerys.

if they fleet they'll still be liege lords. they didn't stop being liege lords just because they're in the Eryie. They wouldn't stop if they're in Bravos. The Iron Bank deals with Stannis doesn't it? And he's in the middle of the freaking woods.

[Naathi Prince]

if they fleet they'll still be liege lords. they didn't stop being liege lords just because they're in the Eryie. They wouldn't stop if they're in Bravos. The Iron Bank deals with Stannis doesn't it? And he's in the middle of the freaking woods.

Abandoning your seat for exile when you means you are no longer the lord. Look at Jon Connington.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

if they fleet they'll still be liege lords. they didn't stop being liege lords just because they're in the Eryie. They wouldn't stop if they're in Bravos. The Iron Bank deals with Stannis doesn't it? And he's in the middle of the freaking woods.

How about their families?

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Abandoning your seat for exile when you means you are no longer the lord. Look at Jon Connington.

Plus, the Iron Bank merely sponsors Stannis because he has vowed to pay the Crown's debts back if he becomes King, not because he has the best claim or something like it, or because he's still a Lord or King or anything like it.

[The Rise of Dorne]

So Rhaegar did something stupid, and Brandon did something stupid, and Mad King Aerys did something stupid, and Jon did something stupid, and Ned did something stupid and Robert did something stupid. Yeey, no one caused the war, because they merely were being stupid! Glad we worked that out.

Well I think you just described every war. But obviously if Aerys wasn't nuts or if Robert and Ned hadn't called their banners then there wouldn't be a war. Someone has to voluntarily de-escalate or otherwise you always get an accidental war. First one side loses a man the the other side kills ten then the first side kills 20 until you have a war. With both sides claiming the other guys started it.

[Naathi Prince]

That Dorne guy cannot be serious.

Yea I tend to agree here. Honestly, the only other option I see for Ned is putting an army at White Harbor, an army at Moat Cailin, and daring the Targaryens to try and invade the North without dragons.

[Naathi Prince]

Well I think you just described every war. But obviously if Aerys wasn't nuts or if Robert and Ned hadn't called their banners then there wouldn't be a war. Someone has to voluntarily de-escalate or otherwise you always get an accidental war. First one side loses a man the the other side kills ten then the first side kills 20 until you have a war. With both sides claiming the other guys started it.

Except the Targaryens did start it.

They kidnapped Lyanna, and then murdered Rickard and Brandon. No matter how you slice it, the Targaryens started the war and Robert ended it.

[The Rise of Dorne]

Abandoning your seat for exile when you means you are no longer the lord. Look at Jon Connington.

I didn't say abandon or exile, I said runaway and hire an assassin. people leave home all the time. Again, Stannis, Iron Bank.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I didn't say abandon or exile, I said runaway and hire an assassin. people leave home all the time. Again, Stannis, Iron Bank.

I will ask you again: what about their families?

[Naathi Prince]

I didn't say abandon or exile, I said runaway and hire an assassin. people leave home all the time. Again, Stannis, Iron Bank.

There is running away and then there is waging a military campaign. Stannis isn't an exile, he's saved the Wall and is liberating the North.

[The Rise of Dorne]

Except the Targaryens did start it.

They kidnapped Lyanna, and then murdered Rickard and Brandon. No matter how you slice it, the Targaryens started the war and Robert ended it.

Don't be ridiculous Ned could have just killed himself. That still would have been better than getting all those people killed. I can't believe you're serious. I'm not even against war, I would have rebelled to in Ned's position. But if Ned asked me to march south on his behalf I would have told him to fuck off. I mean seriously? Ned father died so now I have to march 2000 miles? its a joke. There's no way you can possibly think it the only option.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I didn't say abandon or exile, I said runaway and hire an assassin. people leave home all the time. Again, Stannis, Iron Bank.

And what if they run away? Will Aerys just sit back and think; ''Right, they ran away, so now everything's fine and I'll just wait for them to return!'' No. He'll take their lands and castles and probably murders the whole family in the process. It's not just leaving home then, it's going into exile, since the King called for your innocent head.

[The Rise of Dorne]

I will ask you again: what about their families?

Nothing about their families. Send them into exile.

[Naathi Prince]

Don't be ridiculous Ned could have just killed himself. That still would have been better than getting all those people killed. I can't believe you're serious. I'm not even against war, I would have rebelled to in Ned's position. But if Ned asked me to march south on his behalf I would have told him to fuck off. I mean seriously? Ned father died so now I have to march 2000 miles? its a joke. There's no way you can possibly think it the only option.

Yea, Ned's father someone who protected you from wildlings and ironborn was murdered and now they want to kill Ned its time to fight.

[rystine]

Injustice is injustice, regardless of whether it is committed against one man or ten thousand, or whether that person is rich or poor. They are still people, and no person should have to accept punishment for a crime they did not commit (as Ned and Robert would have had to do if they accepted execution or exile). Nor should they have to resort to subterfuge to fight that injustice (as they would have done had they had to hire an assassin). Every person is entitled to fight false accusations publicly so people know they are not submitting. Those are just basic human rights.

Additionally if a person is able to recruit others to fight along side them against those false accusations, that is also their right as humans. And the very fact that when Ned and Robert called for their armies that their bannermen answered that call, and the small folk who made up those armies answered their lords calls instead of hiding or deserting, implies their consent to the rebellion.

[eggs]

Don't be ridiculous Ned could have just killed himself. That still would have been better than getting all those people killed. I can't believe you're serious. I'm not even against war, I would have rebelled to in Ned's position. But if Ned asked me to march south on his behalf I would have told him to fuck off. I mean seriously? Ned father died so now I have to march 2000 miles? its a joke. There's no way you can possibly think it the only option.

lets flip the scenario. youre a nobody. your sister is kidnapped, your brother strangled and your father burned. you go to ned stark to bring your enemies to justice and he tells you to fuck off. he asks why he should risk his life and his men for some peasant.

is ned doing the right thing?

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Don't be ridiculous Ned could have just killed himself. That still would have been better than getting all those people killed. I can't believe you're serious. I'm not even against war, I would have rebelled to in Ned's position. But if Ned asked me to march south on his behalf I would have told him to fuck off. I mean seriously? Ned father died so now I have to march 2000 miles? its a joke. There's no way you can possibly think it the only option.

Yeah, and Aerys could've killed himself as well, to solve every problem. Even better, let's all kill ourselves, then every problem is solved. World peace, y'all.

Again, you misunderstand the feudal system. You cannot say to your Lord to fuck off if he calls his banners, since you pledged your fealty and your sword to him, since you live on his lands. If you then tell your liege lord to fuck off, your head will be rolling down the road in less than one second. Soldiers back then didn't have ''a mind of their own.'' They did not think at every military thing; ''Oh, right, neh, I don't want to, I'll tell him to fuck off.'' They just went, because that is what is expected of them, that is what they promised, and that is why they live on his lands instead of on other's lands.

We are not saying Rebellion is the only option. We merely refute that hiring an assassin or killing yourselves will help getting somewhere or will legitimize what the King did.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Nothing about their families. Send them into exile.

I meant the Starks and Baratheons. Or send them to exile too?

[Lady Sansa Stark]

lets flip the scenario. youre a nobody. your sister is kidnapped, your brother strangled and your father burned. you go to ned stark to bring your enemies to justice and he tells you to fuck off. he asks why he should risk his life and his men for some peasant.

is ned doing the right thing?

Of course he's doing the right thing. Who would ever want justice in this world, man? It kills people. And stuff. Hence why we never do a military intervention because human rights atrocities are committed and such.

Oh, wait. We do.