TheMysteriousOne Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Are we really in doubt that Cersei, think about it CERSEI, would push Melara down the well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Yeah, showing that maybe she really is and was messed up in the head and cruel really "cardboardises" her. I think perhaps it's just easier to blame Cersei's nastiness on people like Tywin, Tyrion and Robert without having to hold her responsible for what she's done. If she did kill Melara, the only person to blame for that is herself. What a shocker. Look, if you want to say that I think she didn't kill Mellara because I'm a Cersei-apologist looking tom whitewash her, why don't you just get off your goddamned high horse and fucking say it? Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Are we really in doubt that Cersei, think about it CERSEI, would push Melara down the well? She probably would. I don't think she did, others disagree, it's not really a major bone of contention for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 She probably would. I don't think she did, others disagree, it's not really a major bone of contention for me. Why do you believe that she didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Why do you believe that she didn't? My own personal theory is that she never existed to begin with. It's interesting that she doesn't show up in Jaime's PoV or Genma's narrative, especially when you consider that she'd have died just before Aerys refused Cersei as a bride for Rhaegar. One'd think that it'd come up as say a bad omen or summat. The whole thing struck me as "off".There was something else about three highborn girls managing to sneak out of a castle unnoticed, in the dead of night and how unlikely that'd be, especially when one considers increased guards and septas. And where did the third girl go? But what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Look, if you want to say that I think she didn't kill Mellara because I'm a Cersei-apologist looking tom whitewash her, why don't you just get off your goddamned high horse and fucking say it? Jesus. I think you think she didn't kill Melara because it would involve having to admit to yourself that Cersei did some evil shit that can't be blamed on anyone but her and you'd rather not think of it that way. But if it makes you feel better to cuss me out and you have no other way of expressing yourself, have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Yeah same. I'm familiar with sibling jealousy and some physicality when they're young. I have NEVER heard of a child (at least one who wasn't a budding psycho) intentionally doing to a sibling what Cersei did to Tyrion. And I have to think the intended elicited response to what she did to him was, "Oh my God that's terrible, she was messed up even then" and not, "Meh it's common, no biggie."sibling jealously is very common and if parents aren't proactive about including older children in baby activities including prebirth time, then children acting out and potentially hurting the new baby can happen. Most parents are good about explaining what's happening and what the new baby means thus getting the older children happy and excited for the new addition. Now think about Tyrion's situation- Joanna died birthing him and he absolutely blames Tyrion for her death. He probably tells his other children it's his fault they have no mom. Coupling this with her grief and jealously is a recipe for disaster. This does not excuse her actions, but it does help explain them. Everybody has a motivation for their actions, even sociopaths, so understanding that motivation I believe is important. Again, this does not excuse her actions, she was completely wrong and evil twords her new baby brother. The fact that she is a borderline sociopath is another reason for her actions, but again not an excuse. I believe that had Joanna not died Cersei and Tyrion would have a much different relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think you think she didn't kill Melara because it would involve having to admit to yourself that Cersei did some evil shit that can't be blamed on anyone but her and you'd rather not think of it that way. See, was that so bloody hard? Cersei's done plenty of fucked up shit-Qyburn and Margery amongst them-which don't involve Robert or Tyrion or Tywin. Happy? I just don't think killing Mellara was one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 My own personal theory is that she never existed to begin with. The house and Melara are in the appendix. The appendices do share some intentionally misleading information, but I've never known them to list someone that flat out did not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 My own personal theory is that she never existed to begin with. It's interesting that she doesn't show up in Jaime's PoV or Genma's narrative, especially when you consider that she'd have died just before Aerys refused Cersei as a bride for Rhaegar. One'd think that it'd come up as say a bad omen or summat. The whole thing struck me as "off".There was something else about three highborn girls managing to sneak out of a castle unnoticed, in the dead of night and how unlikely that'd be, especially when one considers increased guards and septas. And where did the third girl go? But what do I know. Cersei states that Jeyne Farman, the third girl, is alive and well with her husband and many children on Fair Isle. I think that this couldn't possibly have been made up, as Jeyne Farman exists and is mentioned in the AFFC appendix. ETA: Ninja'd by Apple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 See, was that so bloody hard? Cersei's done plenty of fucked up shit-Qyburn and Margery amongst them-which don't involve Robert or Tyrion or Tywin. Happy? I just don't think killing Mellara was one of them. And much of that fucked up shit occurred after her marriage and after she lost Joffrey. Killing Melara implies that Cersei was fucked up for a long time, maybe even innately so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Cersei states that Jeyne Farman, the third girl, is alive and well with her husband and many children on Fair Isle. I think that this couldn't possibly have been made up, as Jeyne Farman exists and is mentioned in the AFFC appendix. I mean, where did she go that night? I'm assuming of course, that Mellara died that night, in which case, wouldn't Jeyne have been with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 And much of that fucked up shit occurred after her marriage and after she lost Joffrey. Killing Melara implies that Cersei was fucked up for a long time, maybe even innately so. Please yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I mean, where did she go that night? I'm assuming of course, that Mellara died that night, in which case, wouldn't Jeyne have been with them? She ran away once Maggy opened her eyes. Jeyne was afraid and didn't want her future foretold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I mean, where did she go that night? I'm assuming of course, that Mellara died that night, in which case, wouldn't Jeyne have been with them? I'm not sure that it means she died that night. The wording is, "your death is here tonight." As in, there in the tent, that night. Cersei, in the tent, that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'm not sure that it means she died that night. The wording is, "your death is here tonight." As in, there in the tent, that night. Cersei, in the tent, that night. The wiki says she died that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The wiki says she died that night. Because the Wiki is foolproof? There is nothing in Feast that implies she died that night, only that she drowned. The wording of Maggy's prophecy to her is as I quoted it. And I think it just means that her "death," Cersei, was there in the tent that night. Not that she died that night specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 This is the timeline of the events: 1. All three of the girls sneak out to see Maggy2. They enter the tent, and they see Maggy and all of her weird items3. Jeyne runs away out of fear, after seeing Maggy wake up4. Maggy warns Cersei and Melara, but Cersei, being Cersei, ignored her advice and threatens her5. Maggy foretells Cersei's future, and then Melara's6. Eventually, Melara dies. (Though we don't know when) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Because the Wiki is foolproof? There is nothing in Feast that implies she died that night, only that she drowned. The wording of Maggy's prophecy to her is as I quoted it. And I think it just means that her "death," Cersei, was there in the tent that night. Not that she died that night specifically. That requires us to assume that the two highborn girls managed to once again sneak away alone from guards and septas etc etc for Cersei to do the deed. While the tourney was going on apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 That requires us to assume that the two highborn girls managed to once again sneak away alone from guards and septas etc etc for Cersei to do the deed. While the tourney was going on apparently. Again, it never says when Melara drowned, only that she drowned at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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